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<p class="MsoNormal">A huge thank you to Doug and Bill for the quick responses – I have pasted both replies below for continuity and convenience with others following this thread.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I’m really excited by these developments, and with how this is likely to evolve the way I see VRF systems in particular assessed, developed, and ultimately performance-specified for handoff to the manufacturers in my circles. Pretty ground
shaking stuff!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I’m definitely still scaling a learning cliff on the construction and application for the performance curves, specifically. Will probably have more questions before I get to the top.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Kind regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">~Nick<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#3A7A46"><img width="726" height="9" style="width:7.5625in;height:.0937in" id="_x0000_i1034" src="cid:image002.png@01D47C17.AA1FA680"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#3A7A46">Nick Caton, P.E., BEMP</span></b><span style="color:#3A7A46"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#626469"> Senior Energy Engineer</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#626469"> Regional Energy Engineering Manager<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#626469"> Energy and Sustainability Services</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#626469"> Schneider Electric</span><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#57B069">D </span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#626469">913.564.6361
</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#57B069">M </span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#626469">785.410.3317
</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#57B069">F </span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#626469">913.564.6380</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#57B069">E </span><span style="color:#1F497D"><a href="mailto:nicholas.caton@schneider-electric.com"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#626469">nicholas.caton@schneider-electric.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" align="right" style="text-align:right"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#626469">15200 Santa Fe Trail Drive<br>
Suite 204<br>
Lenexa, KS 66219<br>
United States</span><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Doug Maddox <doug@maddoxenergy.com> <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, November 10, 2018 12:05 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nicholas Caton <Nicholas.Caton@schneider-electric.com><br>
<b>Cc:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] New eQuest VRF capabilities - Questions<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p><span style="color:red">[External email: Use caution with links and attachments]</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center">
<hr size="2" width="100%" align="center">
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<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Nick,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Here are some answers to your questions:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">1. I believe Bill is correct in his response yesterday.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">2. NUMBER-OF-UNITS is an alternative to MAX-CAP/UNIT. However, MAX-CAP/UNIT will still have an effect if the total system capacity divided by NUMBER-OF-UNITS exceeds the MAX-CAP/UNIT value. This prevents having unrealistically high capacity
handled by the refrigerant piping.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">3. Refrigerant line insulation is not editable. The thickness of insulation depends on pipe size and whether it is a liquid pipe or a gas pipe as follows.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">High Pressure Liquid Pipe:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <= 0.375 inch nominal pipe size: 0.375 inch insulation thickness<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Larger pipe: 0.5 inch insulation thickness<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Suction Gas Pipe:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> < 2 inch nominal pipe size: 1 inch insulation thickness<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Smaller pipe: 0.75 inch insulation thickness<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Insulation conductivity is 0.25 Btu/hr-in-F<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">4. The only system diagram I have is shown below. Leader is the line from the outdoor unit to the first branch, header is the main line from the first branch to the last branch, and a branch is from the header to an indoor unit.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><img border="0" width="877" height="324" style="width:9.1354in;height:3.375in" id="Picture_x0020_3" src="cid:image004.png@01D47C17.AA1FA680"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">5. The AUX-POWER represents energy for controls, not backup heating. Maybe electric baseboards could work for supplemental. Probably should be addressed in a future release.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#7030A0"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Bishop, Bill <bbishop@pathfinder-ea.com> <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, November 09, 2018 5:40 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nicholas Caton <Nicholas.Caton@schneider-electric.com>; equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: New eQuest VRF capabilities - Questions - custom BDLDialogs.txt file<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hey Nick,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I couldn’t find MAX-CAP/UNIT in the interface and I believe it was just overlooked. You can modify the necessary file to include it as follows:<o:p></o:p></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l4 level1 lfo6">Find the BDLDialogs.txt file in Documents -> eQUEST 3-65-7175 Data -> ScreensDOE23<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l4 level1 lfo6">Save a backup copy of the file with a different name.<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l4 level1 lfo6">Edit the BDLDialogs.txt file:
<o:p></o:p></li></ul>
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc">
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="circle">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l4 level2 lfo6">Using a text editor, search for: LABEL, "Rated and Design Conditions - Cooling"<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l4 level2 lfo6">Insert the following lines of text immediately preceding the LABEL line:<o:p></o:p></li></ul>
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<p class="MsoNormal">; WJB 11/09/18 - added new input field<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> EDIT, 19460, 19460, 0, 1, SYSTEM, 0, MAX-CAP/UNIT, 0, STD, 580, 55, 23, 70, 0, 3, "Max Capacity per Unit:", LEFT, -145, 5, 1, LEFT, 4, 5,"Maximum size per indoor unit. Used for modeling of branch refrigerant piping.
Affects thermal and friction losses."<o:p></o:p></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l4 level1 lfo6">Save the BDLDialogs.txt file.<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l4 level1 lfo6">Run eQUEST as you normally would.<o:p></o:p></li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Your VRF Coil tabpage should now look like this:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><img border="0" width="735" height="273" style="width:7.6562in;height:2.8437in" id="Picture_x0020_5" src="cid:image005.png@01D47C17.AA1FA680"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I believe your understanding of NUM-OF-UNITS is correct.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">~Bill<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Medium",sans-serif;color:black">William Bishop, PE, BEMP, BEAP, CEM, LEED AP<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Senior Energy Engineer<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:3.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Equest-users [<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Nicholas Caton via Equest-users<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, November 9, 2018 4:40 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] New eQuest VRF capabilities - Questions<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi everyone!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I have a couple questions to pose as I’m wading into the new VRF capabilities built into the new eQuest build 3.65-7175, in doe 2.3 mode. Curious if anyone else in parallel has solved any of the following, or else would like to pile on
with additional queries:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<ol style="margin-top:0in" start="1" type="1">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l3 level1 lfo3">Where in the eQuest interface can I review/edit the input for MAX-CAP/UNIT in a VRF system? I’ve seen repeated references to this between the SIM outputs and the reference help files, and I know the default
is affected by the indoor cassette type selection (VRF-TERM-TYPE)… I just can’t find the input in the airside system (PVVT), zonal inputs, or Condensing unit input windows… Probably I’m just missing it, but is it perhaps missing in the interface?<o:p></o:p></li></ol>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:1.0in"><img border="0" width="748" height="188" style="width:7.7916in;height:1.9583in" id="Picture_x0020_2" src="cid:image011.png@01D47C17.AA1FA680"><o:p></o:p></p>
<ol style="margin-top:0in" start="2" type="1">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l3 level1 lfo3">Expanding on the last question, am I correct in understanding the NUMBER-OF-UNITS input within the preceding reference article for MAX-CAP/UNIT is referring to this input under “Unit Staging” in the Basics
tab for Air-Side Systems? Seems from the article this could serve as a proxy for MAX-CAP/UNIT in effect…<o:p></o:p></li></ol>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"><img border="0" width="1141" height="677" style="width:11.8854in;height:7.052in" id="Picture_x0020_4" src="cid:image012.png@01D47C17.AA1FA680"><o:p></o:p></p>
<ol style="margin-top:0in" start="3" type="1">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l3 level1 lfo3">For determining thermal losses, is refrigerant line insulation an editable input for branch (airside system) and leader/header (condensing unit) refrigerant piping? Is that just a constant omitted for simplicity
of inputs?<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l3 level1 lfo3">For illustration, is there a system diagram anywhere at present in the reference manual, similar to those provided for existing SYSTEM articles? (I’m thinking this might provide an overview of the terminology
like leader vs header vs branch piping, and diagram the split between what inputs are specified at the CONDENSING-UNIT vs the airside SYSTEM)<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l3 level1 lfo3">I don’t have the impression that the condenser inputs for AUX-POWER are intended to cover auxiliary/secondary heat sources for when a VRF’s heating capacity needs an extra kick during wintertime operation.
I reckon electric baseboards are the natural answer for supplemental heat at the zone, but which inputs fields are most appropriate (if any) for radiators in an outdoor unit enclosure (Literature:
<a href="https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.daikinac.com%2Fcontent%2Fassets%2FDOC%2FWhite-papers-%2FBPG-EXTAMB.pdf&data=02%7C01%7CNicholas.Caton%40schneider-electric.com%7Cbcb41e704451472e99d808d64736fc1b%7C6e51e1adc54b4b39b5980ffe9ae68fef%7C0%7C0%7C636774698819775251&sdata=ZKuYjT0UcxZQd1vp7iHo1YXoukGnfkHn2wK4mQQClb0%3D&reserved=0">
https://www.daikinac.com/content/assets/DOC/White-papers-/BPG-EXTAMB.pdf</a>)?<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l3 level1 lfo3">Would it be possible to identify makes/models of real world equipment that the library performance curves are based upon?<o:p></o:p></li></ol>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.75in"><b>… Answering my own question:</b> Comments within the BDLLIB.DAT file (eQuest Data Directory
<span style="font-family:Wingdings">à</span> ../DOE23/BDLLIB.DAT), starting on line 25094, provide some sources for the VRF library performance curves.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.75in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.75in">Here is a curve commentary reference I made for myself – may as well share:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.75in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"><u>VRF Curve</u>
<u>Comment</u><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">VRF-FAN-EIR-FPLR $1.4 exponent for multi-speed fans
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">VRF-HP-Resys-ClCap-fSST&ODB $Daikin RXYMQ48MVJU, no SST dependence
<b><o:p></o:p></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">VRF-HP-Resys-ClEIR-fSST&ODB $Daikin RXYMQ48MVJU, no SST dependence
<b><o:p></o:p></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">VRF-HP-Resys-ClEIR-fPLR $Coefficients from Daikin for EER~11 excluding indoor fan heat
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">VRF-HP-Resys-Cycle-fPLR $Estimated, 1.6 minutes at 50% cycle<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">VRF-HP-Resys-HtCap-fSCT&OWB $Daikin RXYMQ48MVJU, no SCT dependence<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">VRF-HP-DefrostCap-fOWB $Daikin and Mitsubishi similar<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">VRF-HP-Resys-HtEIR-fSCT&OWB $Daikin RXYMQ48MVJU, no SCT dependence
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">VRF-HP-Resys-HtEIR-fPLR * no comment *<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">VRF-HP-Resys-Crankcase-fPLR $Used for both heating and cooling<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">VRF-EP-Cap-fSDT&SST $From EnergyPlus sample input - high speed curve<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">VRF-EP-EIR-fSDT&SST $From EnergyPlus sample input - high speed curve<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">VRF-EP-EIR-fPLR $From EnergyPlus sample input, refitted - Ratio & DT<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">VRF044-Cap-fSST&SDT $DanFoss VZH028-035-044
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">VRF044-EIR-fSST&SDT $DanFoss VZH028-035-044
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">VRF044-EIR-fPLR $DanFoss VZH028-035-044
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">VRF088-Cap-fSST&SDT $DanFoss VZH088AG
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">VRF088-EIR-fSST&SDT $DanFoss VZH088AG
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">VRF088-EIR-fPLR $DanFoss VZH088AG<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">VRF_CL_ThermLoss_fPLR&SST $From typical piping layout for 20 ton system<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">VRF_HT_ThermLoss_fPLR&SDT $From typical piping layout for 20 ton system<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">VRF_COOL_DTSAT_fSST $From typical piping layout for 20 ton system<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">VRF_HEAT_DTSAT_fSDT $From typical piping layout for 20 ton system
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">~Nick<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#3A7A46"><img border="0" width="726" height="9" style="width:7.5625in;height:.0937in" id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image002.png@01D47C17.AA1FA680"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#3A7A46">Nick Caton, P.E., BEMP</span></b><span style="color:#3A7A46"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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