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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Bill;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Thank you. I knew this had to have been discussed before, but searching “MIN-AIR-SCH” on the archives doesn’t yield the thread from Sept 2017. May be a case of “-“ meaning don’t include results with xxx in it.
Meh.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Sorry on the #2 and #3 descriptions below. Have added a strikethrough on #3 as it is the case with no economizer and it had no MIN-AIR-SCH coming out of wizard.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">So marrying the previous thread (which was on 100% OA systems) along with this thread (not 100% OA VAV / ‘typical’ VAV units) – for systems with economizer. There are 4 situations just tested and confirmed with
hourly reports:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo5"><![if !supportLists]><span style="color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">1.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="color:#1F497D">System has economizer (OA-CONTROL set to anything but ‘fixed fraction’); a MIN-AIR-SCH which is -999 for occupied hours and 0.001 for unoccupied hours.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo5">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">a.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="color:#1F497D">Allow the unit to bring in extra OA during unoccupied and occupied hours to provide air-side economization. Typical ‘real’ economizer.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo5"><![if !supportLists]><span style="color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">2.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="color:#1F497D">System does <u>not</u> have economizer (OA-CONTROL set to ‘fixed fraction’); a MIN-AIR-SCH which is -999 for occupied hours and 0 for unoccupied hours.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo5">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">a.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="color:#1F497D">Does not allow the unit to bring in extra OA during unoccupied or occupied hours. Truly no air-side economization.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo5"><![if !supportLists]><span style="color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">3.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="color:#1F497D">System has economizer (OA-CONTROL set to anything but ‘fixed fraction’); a MIN-AIR-SCH which is -999 for occupied hours and 0 for unoccupied hours.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo5">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">a.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="color:#1F497D">Allow the unit to bring in extra OA during occupied hours only to provide air-side economization.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo5"><![if !supportLists]><span style="color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">4.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="color:#1F497D">System does <u>not</u> have economizer (OA-CONTROL set to ‘fixed fraction’); a MIN-AIR-SCH which is -999 for occupied hours and 0.001 for unoccupied hours.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo5">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">a.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="color:#1F497D">Allow the unit to bring in extra OA during unoccupied hours only.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo5"><![if !supportLists]><span style="color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">5.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="color:#1F497D">System does <u>not</u> have economizer (OA-CONTROL set to ‘fixed fraction’); a MIN-AIR-SCH which is 0.001 for all hours.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo5">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">a.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="color:#1F497D">Unit hardly brings in any OA all hours.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo5"><![if !supportLists]><span style="color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">6.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="color:#1F497D">System has economizer (OA-CONTROL set to anything but ‘fixed fraction’); a MIN-AIR-SCH which is 0.001 for all hours.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo5">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">a.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="color:#1F497D">Unit hardly brings in any OA all hours, but will ‘jump’ to economize levels, both during occupied and unoccupied hours when economizing would help. This is thinking the MinOA is 0.001 (overriding what
is input at the zone level?) but allowing economizer when it helps. This is too low of OA and is probably wrong.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Case 1 and 2 are probably the most common, from review of real controls sequences.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Case 3 is possible, but maybe odd/rare/special in my experience.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Case 4 is really odd, but possible I guess? Would need some convincing before a real application, but that’s a separate topic.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Case 5 isn’t bringing in OA and is (most likely) wrong.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Case 6 the Min OA is the 0.001, and while it can economize is not providing the right amount of OA during occupied hours. But hey, it’s economizing right? (sarcasm)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#44546A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#44546A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#44546A">Probably the most concerning thing (to me) is with the way I understood the help file was that Case 6 was the only way to get to economizer (‘enables economizer’). I now believe thi is wrong approach. Really
Case 1 is the ‘right’ way to air-economize.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#44546A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#44546A">Any diagreements on the above finiding or inputs?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#44546A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#44546A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#44546A">Again; haven’t tested with DCV implmented – but that’s a next step in the process!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#44546A;text-transform:uppercase"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#44546A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#383A35;text-transform:uppercase">DARIC R ADAIR</span></b><span style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#383A35;text-transform:uppercase">
PE, CEM, BEMP </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#383A35"><br>
Mechanical Engineer, Energy Analyst <br>
<br>
</span><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#008C15;text-transform:uppercase">Henderson Engineers</span></b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#383A35"><br>
<b><span style="text-transform:uppercase">Tel</span></b> (913) 742-5530 <br>
<a href="mailto:daric.adair@hendersonengineers.com"><span style="color:#383A35">daric.adair@hendersonengineers.com</span></a><br>
<br>
</span><b><span style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#383A35;text-transform:uppercase">Licensed in</span></b><span style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#383A35;text-transform:uppercase"> KS</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#383A35"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Bishop, Bill <bbishop@pathfinder-ea.com> <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, August 30, 2018 10:17 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Daric Adair <Daric.Adair@hendersonengineers.com>; equest-users@onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Nicholas.Caton@schneider-electric.com<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] MIN-AIR-SCH and Economizer Implementation<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Hi Daric,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Nick Caton and I had a discussion on this on 6-Sept-2017 (if you care to check the list archive). The primary takeaway was this realization:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="mso-list:Ignore">-<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span><![endif]>I think a value of 0.001 <i><u>in practice</u></i> means “zero OA will be delivered, unless determined beneficial for economizer purposes. There is no minimum OA requirement for this hour.” ~Nick Caton<span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I haven’t tested this lately but I believe it is correct. Using 0.001 in the MIN-AIR-SCH sets the hourly minimum outside air requirement to zero.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">You can test this in your test model setup by using a MIN-AIR-SCH with values of -999 and looking at the custom hourly report you created with supply air flow and OA ratio to identify hours when the OA% is higher
than the minimum requirement. This will confirm that the economizer is occasionally activated. I would skip the Miami model (as economizer is rarely beneficial) and potentially modify a test model to increase the likelihood that an economizer would be helpful.
Perhaps use a low non-zero minimum OA requirement and an undersized air handler and see what that does to the custom hourly report numbers.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">FYI your test iterations #2 and #3 below are described identically.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">~Bill<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Medium",sans-serif;color:black">William Bishop, PE, BEMP, BEAP, CEM, LEED AP<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Senior Energy Engineer<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Equest-users [<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Daric Adair via Equest-users<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, August 29, 2018 4:24 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@onebuilding.org">equest-users@onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] MIN-AIR-SCH and Economizer Implementation<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">eQuesters;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Need to learn from other’s experience on proper implementation of the MIN-AIR-SCH and Air Side Economizers within eQuest. The help file language (and what I have previously followed is this):<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">“…Values in the MIN-AIR-SCH vary from 0.0 (no outside air flow; economizer inactive if specified) to 1.0 (100% outside air flow). A value of 0.001 actives the economizer. A value of -999 returns the hourly value to MIN-OUTSIDE-AIR or to
the program's calculated minimum outside air value …”<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Based on my reading of the help file, if 0.001 ‘activate’ the economizer, my MIN-AIR-SCH should be 0.001 for all 24 hours/day because I want the economizer to always be available. The issue is that on running with this approach on a model,
and reviewing the hourly report values for the Supply Air Flow and the OA ratio – my OA was ~zero in the summer for all hours. While this shows large energy savings – it’s due to lack of OA, not economization. Testing with a 0/-999 MinOA schedule yielded more
realistic OA ratios, but obviously no economizer saving that could be seen.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I stepped back and started to play with eQuest Wizard to see how it configures economizer and MIN-AIR-SCH it creates. Interesting combinations/results:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">All iterations are with a CHW/HW VAV System. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo4"><![if !supportLists]><span style="mso-list:Ignore">1.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span><![endif]>HVAC Wizard: Screen 6 > Economizer Type = Dry Bulb <u>and</u> Screen 5 > Cycle Fans at Night = Cycle Fans (no OA at night). eQuest Detailed Mode yields a Dry Bulb Economizer and a MIN-AIR-SCH of 0=unoccupied and -999=occupied.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo4"><![if !supportLists]><span style="mso-list:Ignore">2.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span><![endif]>HVAC Wizard: Screen 6 > Economizer Type = Dry Bulb <u>and</u> Screen 5 > Cycle Fans at Night = Cycle Fans (no OA at night + economizer). eQuest Detailed Mode yields a Dry Bulb Economizer and a MIN-AIR-SCH of 0.001=unoccupied and -999=occupied.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo4"><![if !supportLists]><span style="mso-list:Ignore">3.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span><![endif]>HVAC Wizard: Screen 6 > Economizer Type = Dry Bulb <u>and</u> Screen 5 > Cycle Fans at Night = Cycle Fans (no OA at night
<s>+ economizer</s>). eQuest Detailed Mode yields a Dry Bulb Economizer and a no MIN-AIR-SCH at all(?)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo4"><![if !supportLists]><span style="mso-list:Ignore">4.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span><![endif]>HVAC Wizard: Screen 6 > Economizer Type = none <u>and</u> Screen 5 > Cycle Fans at Night = Cycle Fans (no OA at night). eQuest Detailed Mode yields No Economizer and a MIN-AIR-SCH of 0=unoccupied and -999=occupied.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo4"><![if !supportLists]><span style="mso-list:Ignore">5.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span><![endif]>HVAC Wizard: Screen 6 > Economizer Type = none <u>and</u> Screen 5 > Cycle Fans at Night = Cycle Fans (no OA at night + economizer). eQuest Detailed Mode yields a No Economizer and a MIN-AIR-SCH of 0.001=unoccupied and -999=occupied.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">From this testing (and other combinations) it would <i>appear</i> that the ‘fan at night’ input drives what appears in the MIN-AIR-SCH (or the existence thereof) as opposed to anything to do with Economizer. Though, iteration #5 shows a
schedule with an economizer/0.001, but no economizer at the system (fixed fraction).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Quick runs of the above, the options with economizer did use less cooling than the non-economizer options (As expected) but the results were underwhelming. Tested in a 2A/Miami, 4A Kansas City, and Boise/5B. All underwhelming.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">So – what is right? Is the ‘right’ approach for economizer implementation to have economizer enable at the unit with a MIN-AIR-SCH of 0.001=unoccupied and -999=occupied. OR does the 0.001/-999 schedule mess matter if the economizer is enabled
at the unit? From my ‘real’ model a schedule of 0.001 appears wrong. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Also –‘right’ in this case is how one would expect this to perform on an actual piece of equipment; not looking to fake-bake any numbers for code/LEED/other. Field economizer operation is relatively simple – Is OA available to help free
cool my building (fully or partly/integrated) or should the system be at Minimum OA?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Note: None of the situations above involve DCV. DCV didn’t appear to be something which can be implemented in the Wizard and I’ve always done it in Detailed mode anyways. Let me know if I’ve missed this in Wizard. But, more importantly,
if DCV impacts your thoughts on the MIN-AIR-SCH and economizer implementation, I’d be interested in that as well.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks in advance.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;text-transform:uppercase"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#383A35;text-transform:uppercase">DARIC R ADAIR</span></b><span style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#383A35;text-transform:uppercase"> PE,
CEM, BEMP </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#383A35"><br>
Mechanical Engineer, Energy Analyst <br>
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