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<p>Bruce,</p>
<p>I have to say that DOE-2 normalizing the Leakage-Fraction by the
floor area is not a quirk, but a result of the infiltration
studies done to date that are predominantly, almost exclusively,
done on single-family residences. I'm thinking here of the work
by Max Sherman and David Grimsrud at LBNL that produced the
Sherman-Grimsrud Model, the only infiltration model I know of
that's physically based, i.e., the model related the infiltration
to the temperature difference and wind pressure, coupled with the
leakage area of the building. For single-family residences, that
leakage area is best scaled by the floor area, since a large part
of the leakage area is in the ceiling. Therefore, I don't agree
that leakage scales better with the wall area than the floor
area. On an intuitive basis, it should probably scale by the
exterior surface area, i.e., walls + windows + ceiling, but I have
yet to see any study that quantified the amount of leakage through
each of these components. As we move to multi-family or
commercial buildings, the surface/volume ratio will clearly
dominate and for interior floors with only the wall and windows
exposed to the outside, yes, the infiltration probably does scale
with the exposed wall area. However, there's a dearth of
information on the normalized leakage of walls. <br>
</p>
<p>Joe<br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="90">Joe Huang
White Box Technologies, Inc.
346 Rheem Blvd., Suite 205A
Moraga CA 94556
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com">yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com">http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com</a> for simulation-ready weather data
(o) (925)388-0265
(c) (510)928-2683
"building energy simulations at your fingertips"
</pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/1/2018 9:19 PM, Bruce Easterbrook
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:a8d44949-b78b-08c3-445f-4bb206d2aa9a@bellnet.ca">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
Thank's Joe, I didn't realize that. There are many quirks with
DOE2 and eQuest. I haven't looked at that part of the fine print
recently. Leakage does depend on the wall area and not the floor
area in real terms. Buildings have many different wall heights,
plenums or not, ducted or not, etc. I would guess after
normalization that one would have to be careful with how
manipulations in geometry are done to achieve other effects in the
model. Infiltration can have a serious effect on a model.<br>
I can remember a past model where I used this technique for an
actual butting of 2 industrial spaces/buildings. The one area was
a cable casing thermal setting zone, 1/2 height of the
warehouse/machinery high bay zone that was adjacent to it. I was
more concerned with the door and seal between the 2 buildings. I
possibly missed the infiltration difference seeing it was based on
floor area and not wall area. I will have to re-read the fine
print.<br>
Bruce<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/1/2018 10:32 PM, Joe Huang via
Equest-users wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:20180302033320.IOBW2981.toroondcmxzimta03-srv.bellnexxia.net@tordcvbicmrk01">
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charset=utf-8">
<p>I don't think Bruce's comment is germaine to the problem
posed by Menush, since Menush is asking about infiltration and
not heat transfer through interior walls. As far as I know
from DOE-2 (always have to add that caveat because I don't
work much in eQUEST), infiltration rates are normalized per
floor area, rather than external wall area, mainly because
that's how the infiltration models have been developed, i.e.,
effective leakage areas have always been defined as per floor
area. If you don't think that's right, you can always adjust
the input values by the ratio of the external wall area to the
floor area, as you've described, but then you're on your own
in coming up with the correlation, <br>
</p>
<p>Joe<br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="90">Joe Huang
White Box Technologies, Inc.
346 Rheem Blvd., Suite 205A
Moraga CA 94556
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com" moz-do-not-send="true">yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com" moz-do-not-send="true">http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com</a> for simulation-ready weather data
(o) (925)388-0265
(c) (510)928-2683
"building energy simulations at your fingertips"
</pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/1/2018 6:44 PM, Bruce
Easterbrook via Equest-users wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:5669491f-8e14-0dce-e943-4b7f2f5dfa09@bellnet.ca">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=utf-8">
Hi Menush,<br>
I don't think you have the same thing. eQuest will treat 2
shells butted to each other differently than a single interior
wall separating 2 zones in a shell. It treats the 2 butted
walls as exterior walls with a tiny space between. They are
the same wall in your thinking but they are not. You can
delete one of them and make the remaining wall an interior
wall and assign the proper butting spaces on each side of the
wall as sharing the wall and transferring heating and cooling
through the wall. Or you can add an interior wall to the
original space and separate it into 2 zones. As you have
noticed there is a difference in the way eQuest treats your 2
solutions. It is particular. Now you need to pick the
configuration that matches what you are trying to model in
such a way that eQuest does/treats the wall in the way you
want it to work.<br>
Bruce Easterbrook P.Eng.<br>
Abode Engineering<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/1/2018 5:23 PM, Menush
Akbari via Equest-users wrote:<br>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi all,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I’m having an issue with infiltration
and wondering if anyone else has noticed this. When I’m
in wizard mode, I build a very simple rectangular shell
and I change the infiltration rate for perimeter zones
to 0.05cfm/ft2. I leave the core zone infiltration rate
to the eQuest default value (0.001cfm/ft2). From my
understanding, the perimeter zone entered value in
wizard mode is based on exterior gross wall area. When I
move on to detail mode, eQuest changes the value to an
infiltration value per floor area instead of exterior
wall area. The values so far make sense and I can do the
math and get the same numbers eQuest calculates in
detail mode. No problems here.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The problem however happens when I
create different shells. For example, let’s say I have
the same rectangular building as mentioned above, but I
split this up into two different shells next to each
other (two square shells), therefore one of the walls of
each square shell is an interior wall, which means I
should not see an infiltration of 0.05 cfm/ft2 of the
gross wall area. However when I finish building these
two shells in detail mode (which would be identical to
one rectangular shell), the infiltration value is not
accurate anymore. Instead of the same numbers as my
first model (one rectangular shell), the second model
calculates an exterior wall infiltration value for the
interior walls that are budded up against each other.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Has anyone come across this? Is this
a quirk with eQuest and just needs to be changed
manually in detail mode, or am I doing something wrong
here?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks for the help.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:"Corbel",sans-serif;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-CA"
lang="EN-CA">Menush Akbari<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Corbel",sans-serif;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-CA"
lang="EN-CA">BEng, PEng, BEMP, CMVP<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Corbel",sans-serif;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-CA"
lang="EN-CA">Senior Energy Engineer<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span
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