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</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517766705625_4678">Maria:</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517766705625_4749"><br></div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517766705625_4679">Yes, sometimes I model an entire floor as having roof
construction if some of the floor is exposed to outdoor conditions.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517766705625_4680"> </span>If part of this floor is under a conditioned
space, it is possible to delete the roof constructions under the conditioned
area.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517766705625_4681"> </span>If it is possible, I model several
shells per floor in order to more accurately define which areas are exposed to
outdoor conditions and which areas are adjacent to a condition space.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517766705625_4682"> </span>Often this is not possible since multiple
zones span the condition-unconditioned area of the shell above and we run into
the problem of these zones having external walls down the middle of them.</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517766705625_4750"><br></div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517766705625_4683">The same follows for underground floors.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517766705625_4684"> </span>In the model I referenced, about 1/2 of the
first floor is over a conditioned space and one half is slab on grade.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517766705625_4685"> </span>So I defined this floor as over an
unconditioned space in the DD wizard as this should result in a reasonable average.</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517766705625_4751"><br></div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517766705625_4686">If I remove the first floor external slab on grade floors as
I have stated, it is interesting that before and after the removal of the
floors, the slab on grade floor conductance is 0 in both cases.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517766705625_4687"> </span>By removal of the floor, the conductance
remains 0 but the infiltration changes based on the LS-B reports.</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517766705625_4781"><br></div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517766705625_4688">I have spent time experimenting and have found that deleting
the roof constructions in zones adjacent to conditioned areas in both the
baseline and proposed models results in approximately a 1/10 of one percent
change in the annual MBTU consumption.</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517766705625_4788"><br></div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517766705625_4689">For example, when removing a roof construction in a zone
with a plenum under a conditioned zone, the wall conductance increases and the infiltration
increases.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517766705625_4690"> </span>Looking at the unconditioned plenum
for this zone, when removing the roof construction, the wall conduction increases,
the roof conduction decreases and the infiltration decreases.</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517766705625_4790"><br></div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517766705625_4691">It is my expectation that the utility reviewer is at least
as competent as I am in eQuest.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517766705625_4692"> </span>And even
though I have been submitting models over 10 years, I have a lot to learn.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517766705625_4693"> <br></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517766705625_4791"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517766705625_4693"><br></span></div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517766705625_4694">Going in circles to correct a 1/10 of one percent difference
is unreasonable.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517766705625_4695"> </span>I have gone back on unpaid
time to calibrate models based on the annual energy consumption post model and post
project completion. <span style="mso-spacerun:yes" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517766705625_4696"> </span>The annual utility
cost of the model is often 30-50% greater than the actual cost since the
building is not operated per the requirements of Appendix G, 90.1.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517766705625_4697"> </span>For example, in a residential high-rise, the
apartment fans do not run whenever the zone is occupied, and this makes a huge
difference in the annual energy consumption.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517766705625_4698">
</span>Per 90.1, the model is not intended to predict actual energy consumption,
but is just a comparison between a code compliant model vs. the proposed model
operated to the requirements of the standard.</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517766705625_4792"><br></div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517766705625_4699">Sure, anyone can nitpick any one of the several hundred
assumptions used in models, but a competent reviewer should know which will affect
the model significantly and would need to be revised.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517766705625_4700"> </span>Modeling is not a science, it is an art.</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517766705625_4701"> </div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517766705625_4702"> </div>
Thank you,<br><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517766705625_4704"> </div><div class="qtdSeparateBR" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517766705625_4735">Paul Diglio<br><br></div><div class="yahoo_quoted" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517766705625_4740" style="display: block;"> <div style="font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517766705625_4739"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517766705625_4738"> <div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517766705625_4737"> <font id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517766705625_4736" size="2" face="Arial"> <hr id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517766705625_4748" size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Maria Karpman <maria.karpman@karpmanconsulting.net><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Paul Diglio <paul.diglio@sbcglobal.net>; "Bishop, Bill" <bbishop@pathfinder-ea.com>; Nathan Miller <nathanm@rushingco.com>; equest-users@onebuilding.org <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Friday, February 2, 2018 4:34 PM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> RE: [Equest-users] Slab on Grade Floor Heat Loss<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container"><br><div id="yiv0810656751"><style>#yiv0810656751 #yiv0810656751 --
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#yiv0810656751 </style><div><div class="yiv0810656751WordSection1"><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal">Some eQUEST models do have redundant roofs, exterior or underground floors sandwiched between the Shells created in DD Wizard. These can be easily identified by hiding some exterior and interior surfaces from 3D view, to look “inside” the building, like in the screenshots below. There is also a nice summary of surface areas at the end of LV-D report, which can be used to check that the modeled “UNDERGROUND” and “ROOF” areas are as expected for the projects. That said, reviewers too make mistakes. We all know that sometimes they are hands full <span style="font-family:Wingdings;">J</span>.</div><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal"> </div><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal"><img id="yiv0810656751Picture_x0020_1" style="width:3.925in;min-height:3.125in;" src="cid:image008.jpg@01D39C43.53C5CC10" data-id="6c4f9c08-7f5f-4dae-1d04-f0c6972bfe92" width="377" height="300"></div><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal"> </div><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal"><img id="yiv0810656751Picture_x0020_2" style="width:6.4583in;min-height:3.3166in;" src="cid:image009.jpg@01D39C43.53C5CC10" data-id="de975bee-188e-d9df-5d25-f994bf8140dc" width="620" height="318"></div><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal"> </div><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal"> </div><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><b><span style="">Maria Karpman </span></b><span style="">LEED AP, BEMP, CEM</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;"></span></div><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">________________</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;"></span></div><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">Karpman Consulting</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;"></span></div><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.karpmanconsulting.net/"><span style="color:#1155cc;">www.karpmanconsulting.net</span></a> </span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;"></span></div><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">Phone </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href=""><span style="color:#1155cc;">860.430.1909</span></a> </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"></span></div><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">41C New London Turnpike</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"></span></div><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">Glastonbury, CT 06033</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"></span></div><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal"> </div><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal"> </div><div class="yiv0810656751yqt8340116089" id="yiv0810656751yqt20647"><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;"><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Equest-users [mailto:<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Paul Diglio via Equest-users<br clear="none"><b>Sent:</b> Friday, February 02, 2018 3:27 PM<br clear="none"><b>To:</b> Bishop, Bill <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:bbishop@pathfinder-ea.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:bbishop@pathfinder-ea.com">bbishop@pathfinder-ea.com</a>>; Nathan Miller <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:nathanm@rushingco.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:nathanm@rushingco.com">nathanm@rushingco.com</a>>; <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:equest-users@onebuilding.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:equest-users@onebuilding.org">equest-users@onebuilding.org</a><br clear="none"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Slab on Grade Floor Heat Loss</div></div></div><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal"> </div><div><div id="yiv0810656751yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42721"><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">Thanks Bill, you are always such a big help. That is what I thought, but just wanted to run it by the forum.</span></div></div><div id="yiv0810656751yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42720"><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></div></div><div id="yiv0810656751yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42723"><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">Thanks to you too Nathan.</span></div></div><div id="yiv0810656751yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42618"><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></div></div><div id="yiv0810656751yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42619"><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">Paul Diglio</span></div></div><div id="yiv0810656751yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42620"><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></div></div><div id="yiv0810656751yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42626"><div id="yiv0810656751yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42625"><div id="yiv0810656751yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42624"><div id="yiv0810656751yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42623"><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="text-align:center;background:white;" align="center"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"></span><hr width="100%" size="1" align="center"></div><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> "Bishop, Bill" <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:bbishop@pathfinder-ea.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:bbishop@pathfinder-ea.com">bbishop@pathfinder-ea.com</a>><br clear="none"><b>To:</b> Nathan Miller <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:nathanm@rushingco.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:nathanm@rushingco.com">nathanm@rushingco.com</a>>; Paul Diglio <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:paul.diglio@sbcglobal.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:paul.diglio@sbcglobal.net">paul.diglio@sbcglobal.net</a>>; "<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:equest-users@onebuilding.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:equest-users@onebuilding.org">equest-users@onebuilding.org</a>" <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:equest-users@onebuilding.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:equest-users@onebuilding.org">equest-users@onebuilding.org</a>> <br clear="none"><b>Sent:</b> Friday, February 2, 2018 3:13 PM<br clear="none"><b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] Slab on Grade Floor Heat Loss</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"></span></div></div><div id="yiv0810656751yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42658"><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></div><div id="yiv0810656751"><div id="yiv0810656751yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42657"><div id="yiv0810656751yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42656"><div id="yiv0810656751yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42700"><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">Paul,</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"></span></div></div><div id="yiv0810656751yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42655"><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">Your reviewer may have thought that if the slab was showing up as an “exterior surface” (such as on the LV-D report) than the model was simulating heat transfer between the zones and the outside air through the slab. But eQUEST/DOE-2 simulates heat transfer across underground surfaces differently, as described in the UNDERGROUND-WALL and UNDERGROUND-FLOOR section of the DOE-2 help documentation. The main difference is that ground temperature is used instead of the OA temperature as the outside temperature. The monthly ground temperature is taken from the weather file, or can be entered as SITE-PARAMETERS:GROUND-T.</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"></span></div></div><div id="yiv0810656751yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42765"><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"></span></div></div><div id="yiv0810656751yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42660"><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">The eQUEST wizard creates custom constructions for each underground surface based on inputs for Exterior/Cavity Insulation and Perimeter Floor Insulation. Underground floors are given constructions with low U-factor (high R-value) consistent with the lower heat transfer that would be expected.</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"></span></div></div><div id="yiv0810656751yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42766"><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"></span></div></div><div id="yiv0810656751yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42699"><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">Regards,</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"></span></div></div><div><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">~Bill</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"></span></div></div><div id="yiv0810656751yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42662"><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"></span></div></div><div id="yiv0810656751yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42669"><div id="yiv0810656751yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42697"><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">William Bishop, PE, BEMP, BEAP, CEM, LEED AP | Pathfinder Engineers & Architects LLP</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"></span></div></div><table class="yiv0810656751MsoNormalTable yahoo-compose-table-card" id="yiv0810656751yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42668" style="width:394.8pt;border-collapse:collapse;" width="526" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tbody><tr id="yiv0810656751yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42666" style="min-height:13.45pt;"><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="width:258.45pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;min-height:13.45pt;" width="345"><div><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="line-height:105%;"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;line-height:105%;">Senior Energy 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rowspan="1" style="width:258.45pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;min-height:9.8pt;" width="345" valign="top"><div><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="line-height:105%;"><span style="color:#1f497d;"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:wbishop@pathfinder-ea.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:wbishop@pathfinder-ea.com"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;line-height:105%;">bbishop@pathfinder-ea.com</span></a></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;line-height:105%;"> </span><span style="color:#1f497d;"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.pathfinder-ea.com/"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;line-height:105%;">www.pathfinder-ea.com</span></a></span></div></div></td></tr><tr style="min-height:24.6pt;"><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="width:258.45pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;min-height:24.6pt;" width="345" valign="top"><div style="margin-top:3.0pt;"><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="line-height:105%;"><span style="color:#1f497d;"><img id="yiv0810656751Picture_x0020_5" style="width:.3583in;min-height:.3333in;" src="cid:image015.png@01D39C43.53C5CC10" alt="http://png-5.findicons.com/files/icons/977/rrze/720/globe.png" data-id="fa7dff1c-7da2-b6ba-7769-6cd493ecdbe5" width="34" height="32" border="0"></span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;line-height:105%;color:#00b0f0;">Carbon Fee and Dividend - simple, effective, and market-based.</span></div></div></td></tr></tbody></table></div><div id="yiv0810656751yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42694"><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"></span></div></div><div id="yiv0810656751yqt28255"><div id="yiv0810656751yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42684"><div id="yiv0810656751yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42683" style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;"><div id="yiv0810656751yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42682"><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> Equest-users [<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Nathan Miller via Equest-users<br clear="none"><b>Sent:</b> Friday, February 02, 2018 2:35 PM<br clear="none"><b>To:</b> Nathan Miller <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:nathanm@rushingco.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:nathanm@rushingco.com">nathanm@rushingco.com</a>>; Paul Diglio <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:paul.diglio@sbcglobal.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:paul.diglio@sbcglobal.net">paul.diglio@sbcglobal.net</a>>; <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:equest-users@onebuilding.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:equest-users@onebuilding.org">equest-users@onebuilding.org</a><br clear="none"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Slab on Grade Floor Heat Loss</span></div></div></div></div><div><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></div></div><div><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">Fixed my typo in the F-factor heat loss calc (should have read 50 ft of perimeter)… See below. </span></div></div><div><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></div></div><div id="yiv0810656751yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42693"><div style="margin-bottom:4.0pt;"><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;">Nathan Miller, PE, LEED AP BD+C – </span></b><i><span style="font-size:8.0pt;">Mechanical Engineer/Senior Energy Analyst</span></i><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"></span></div></div><div style="margin-top:3.0pt;"><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="line-height:115%;background:white;"><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;">RUSHING</span></b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;"> | <b>O</b> 206-285-7100 | <b>C</b> 207-650-3942</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;line-height:115%;"></span></div></div><div id="yiv0810656751yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42692"><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="line-height:115%;background:white;"><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.rushingco.com/"><span style="color:#6f1200;">www.rushingco.com</span></a></span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;line-height:115%;"></span></div></div></div><div><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></div></div><div id="yiv0810656751yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42689"><div id="yiv0810656751yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42688" style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;"><div id="yiv0810656751yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42687"><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> Equest-users [<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Nathan Miller via Equest-users<br clear="none"><b>Sent:</b> Friday, February 2, 2018 2:33 PM<br clear="none"><b>To:</b> Paul Diglio <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:paul.diglio@sbcglobal.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:paul.diglio@sbcglobal.net">paul.diglio@sbcglobal.net</a>>; <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:equest-users@onebuilding.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:equest-users@onebuilding.org">equest-users@onebuilding.org</a><br clear="none"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Slab on Grade Floor Heat Loss</span></div></div></div></div><div><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></div></div><div><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">In the past I’ve done a conversion of F-factor (perimeter based) slab-on-grade heat loss to U-factor (area) and input that in on a zone-by-zone basis if I really wanted to nail down SOG heat loss. </span></div></div><div><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></div></div><div><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">Example- Space is 20’ x 30’, but the exposed perimeter is only two of the faces (20’ + 30’). Lets say it is uninsulated SOG. </span></div></div><div><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></div></div><div><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">F-factor from 90.1: F = 0.73 Btu/(hr*ft*F)<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Perimeter based heat loss: 0.73 Btu/(hr*ft*F) * 50 ft = 36.5 BTU/(hr *F)</span></div></div><div><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></div></div><div><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">Then we can back-calculate the U-factor to assume for the whole floor to equate to that heat loss: 36.5 BTU/(hr *F) = 600 SF * X BTU/(hr*SF*F) -> U = 0.0608 BTU/(hr*SF*F)</span></div></div><div><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></div></div><div><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">You can create a custom floor construction for each space to provide the U-factor to produce equivalent heat loss that the F-factor calcs are telling you lose. For purely core zones (no exposed perimeter), I guess the F-factor calcs are telling us were not really losing heat through that slab (doesn’t’ seem right, but it probably is relatively small) </span></div></div><div><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin-bottom:4.0pt;"><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;">Nathan Miller, PE, LEED AP BD+C – </span></b><i><span style="font-size:8.0pt;">Mechanical Engineer/Senior Energy Analyst</span></i><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"></span></div></div><div style="margin-top:3.0pt;"><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="line-height:115%;background:white;"><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;">RUSHING</span></b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;"> | <b>O</b> 206-285-7100 | <b>C</b> 207-650-3942</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;line-height:115%;"></span></div></div><div><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="line-height:115%;background:white;"><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="https://url.emailprotection.link/?a6X-5ry0mOOudUi-eMfQ7K9LfplwNoMV9idJhgEyf85c~"><span style="color:#6f1200;">www.rushingco.com</span></a></span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;line-height:115%;"></span></div></div></div><div><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></div></div><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;"><div><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> Equest-users [<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Paul Diglio via Equest-users<br clear="none"><b>Sent:</b> Friday, February 2, 2018 2:19 PM<br clear="none"><b>To:</b> <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:equest-users@onebuilding.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:equest-users@onebuilding.org">equest-users@onebuilding.org</a><br clear="none"><b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] Slab on Grade Floor Heat Loss</span></div></div></div></div><div><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></div></div><div><div id="yiv0810656751yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_11245"><div><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">I recently submitted a model to the local utility company for an incentive. Part of the buildings' first floor is slab on grade.</span></div></div></div><div id="yiv0810656751yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_11310"><div style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></div></div></div><div id="yiv0810656751yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_11309"><div style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">One of the comments I received back is that this erroneously shows up as an exterior surface and I should delete all the slab on grade floors in the component tree. Doesn't seem right to me.</span></div></div></div><div id="yiv0810656751yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_11372"><div style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></div></div></div><div id="yiv0810656751yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_11378"><div><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">I did a few and it does reduce the overall energy consumption. In the 3D model, no floors show, just open to the interior of the zone.</span></div></div></div><div id="yiv0810656751yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_11371"><div style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></div></div></div><div id="yiv0810656751yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_11373"><div style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">So is eQuest assuming that without this floor, there is no heat loss out the bottom of the zone? Is this reasonable?</span></div></div></div><div id="yiv0810656751yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_11387"><div style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></div></div></div><div id="yiv0810656751yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_11388"><div><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">Thank you,</span></div></div></div><div id="yiv0810656751yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_11246"><div><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></div></div></div><div id="yiv0810656751yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_11247"><div style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">Paul Diglio</span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="yiv0810656751MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br><br></div> </div> </div> </div></div></body></html>