<html><head></head><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42721" dir="ltr">Thanks Bill, you are always such a big help. That is what I thought, but just wanted to run it by the forum.<br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42720"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42723">Thanks to you too Nathan.<br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42719"><span></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42618"> </div><div class="signature" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42619">Paul Diglio<br><br></div><div class="qtdSeparateBR" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42620"><br><br></div><div class="yahoo_quoted" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42626" style="display: block;"> <div style="font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42625"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42624"> <div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42623"> <font id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42622" size="2" face="Arial"> <hr id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42621" size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> "Bishop, Bill" <bbishop@pathfinder-ea.com><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Nathan Miller <nathanm@rushingco.com>; Paul Diglio <paul.diglio@sbcglobal.net>; "equest-users@onebuilding.org" <equest-users@onebuilding.org> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Friday, February 2, 2018 3:13 PM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> RE: [Equest-users] Slab on Grade Floor Heat Loss<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42658"><br><div id="yiv9572653599"><style>#yiv9572653599 #yiv9572653599 --
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<div class="yiv9572653599MsoNormal" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42700"><span style="color:#1F497D;">Paul,</span></div>
<div class="yiv9572653599MsoNormal" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42655"><span style="color:#1F497D;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42654">Your reviewer may have thought that if the slab was showing up as an “exterior surface” (such as on the LV-D report) than the model was simulating heat transfer between the zones and the outside air through the
slab. But eQUEST/DOE-2 simulates heat transfer across underground surfaces differently, as described in the UNDERGROUND-WALL and UNDERGROUND-FLOOR section of the DOE-2 help documentation. The main difference is that ground temperature is used instead of the
OA temperature as the outside temperature. The monthly ground temperature is taken from the weather file, or can be entered as SITE-PARAMETERS:GROUND-T.</span></div>
<div class="yiv9572653599MsoNormal" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42765"><span style="color:#1F497D;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv9572653599MsoNormal" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42660"><span style="color:#1F497D;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42661">The eQUEST wizard creates custom constructions for each underground surface based on inputs for Exterior/Cavity Insulation and Perimeter Floor Insulation. Underground floors are given constructions with low U-factor
(high R-value) consistent with the lower heat transfer that would be expected.</span></div>
<div class="yiv9572653599MsoNormal" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42766"><span style="color:#1F497D;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv9572653599MsoNormal" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42699"><span style="color:#1F497D;">Regards,</span></div>
<div class="yiv9572653599MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D;">~Bill</span></div>
<div class="yiv9572653599MsoNormal" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42662"><span style="color:#1F497D;"> </span></div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42669">
<div class="yiv9572653599MsoNormal" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42697"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">William Bishop, PE, BEMP, BEAP, CEM, LEED AP
</span></b><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">|</span></b><b id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42696"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42695"> Pathfinder Engineers & Architects LLP</span></b></div>
<table class="yiv9572653599MsoNormalTable yahoo-compose-table-card" style="width:394.8pt;border-collapse:collapse;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42668" width="0" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tbody id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42667"><tr style="min-height:13.45pt;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42666"><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="width:258.45pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;min-height:13.45pt;" width="345">
<div class="yiv9572653599MsoNormal" style="line-height:105%;"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;line-height:105%;">Senior Energy Engineer</span></b></div>
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<div class="yiv9572653599MsoNormal" style="line-height:105%;"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;line-height:105%;">134 South Fitzhugh Street</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;line-height:105%;color:#1F497D;">
</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;line-height:105%;">Rochester, NY 14608</span></div>
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<div class="yiv9572653599MsoNormal" style="line-height:105%;"><b><i><span style="font-size:9.0pt;line-height:105%;">T: (585) 698-1956</span></i></b><b><i><span style="color:#002060;">
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<div class="yiv9572653599MsoNormal" style="line-height:105%;"><span style="color:#1F497D;"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:wbishop@pathfinder-ea.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:wbishop@pathfinder-ea.com"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;line-height:105%;">bbishop@pathfinder-ea.com</span></a></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;line-height:105%;">
</span><span style="color:#1F497D;"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.pathfinder-ea.com/"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;line-height:105%;">www.pathfinder-ea.com</span></a></span></div>
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Fee and Dividend - simple, effective, and market-based.</span><span style="color:#1F497D;"></span></div>
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<div class="yiv9572653599MsoNormal" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42694"><span style="color:#1F497D;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv9572653599yqt0055857711" id="yiv9572653599yqt28255"><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42684">
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<div class="yiv9572653599MsoNormal" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42682"><b>From:</b> Equest-users [mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Nathan Miller via Equest-users<br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, February 02, 2018 2:35 PM<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> Nathan Miller <nathanm@rushingco.com>; Paul Diglio <paul.diglio@sbcglobal.net>; equest-users@onebuilding.org<br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Slab on Grade Floor Heat Loss</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="yiv9572653599MsoNormal"> </div>
<div class="yiv9572653599MsoNormal">Fixed my typo in the F-factor heat loss calc (should have read 50 ft of perimeter)… See below.
</div>
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<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42693">
<div class="yiv9572653599MsoNormal" style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:4.0pt;margin-left:0in;">
<b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;">Nathan Miller, PE, LEED AP BD+C</span></b><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;"> –
</span></b><i><span style="font-size:8.0pt;">Mechanical Engineer/Senior Energy Analyst</span></i><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;"></span></b></div>
<div class="yiv9572653599MsoNormal" style="margin-top:3.0pt;line-height:115%;"><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;">RUSHING</span></b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;">
</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;">|</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;">
</span><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;">O</span></b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;">
</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;">206-285-7100 |</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;">
</span><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;">C</span></b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;">
</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;">207-650-3942</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;"></span></div>
<div class="yiv9572653599MsoNormal" style="line-height:115%;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42692"><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.rushingco.com/"><span style="color:#6F1200;">www.rushingco.com</span></a></span></b><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;line-height:115%;"></span></b></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv9572653599MsoNormal"> </div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42689">
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42688">
<div class="yiv9572653599MsoNormal" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42687"><b>From:</b> Equest-users [<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_42686">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Nathan Miller via Equest-users<br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, February 2, 2018 2:33 PM<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> Paul Diglio <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:paul.diglio@sbcglobal.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:paul.diglio@sbcglobal.net">paul.diglio@sbcglobal.net</a>>;
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:equest-users@onebuilding.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:equest-users@onebuilding.org">equest-users@onebuilding.org</a><br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Slab on Grade Floor Heat Loss</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="yiv9572653599MsoNormal"> </div>
<div class="yiv9572653599MsoNormal">In the past I’ve done a conversion of F-factor (perimeter based) slab-on-grade heat loss to U-factor (area) and input that in on a zone-by-zone basis if I really wanted to nail down SOG heat loss.
</div>
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<div class="yiv9572653599MsoNormal">Example- Space is 20’ x 30’, but the exposed perimeter is only two of the faces (20’ + 30’). Lets say it is uninsulated SOG.
</div>
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<div class="yiv9572653599MsoNormal">F-factor from 90.1: F = 0.73 Btu/(hr*ft*F)<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Perimeter based heat loss: 0.73 Btu/(hr*ft*F) * 50 ft = 36.5 BTU/(hr *F)</div>
<div class="yiv9572653599MsoNormal"> </div>
<div class="yiv9572653599MsoNormal">Then we can back-calculate the U-factor to assume for the whole floor to equate to that heat loss: 36.5 BTU/(hr *F) = 600 SF * X BTU/(hr*SF*F) -> U = 0.0608 BTU/(hr*SF*F)</div>
<div class="yiv9572653599MsoNormal"> </div>
<div class="yiv9572653599MsoNormal">You can create a custom floor construction for each space to provide the U-factor to produce equivalent heat loss that the F-factor calcs are telling you lose. For purely core zones (no exposed perimeter), I guess the F-factor calcs are
telling us were not really losing heat through that slab (doesn’t’ seem right, but it probably is relatively small)
</div>
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<div class="yiv9572653599MsoNormal" style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:4.0pt;margin-left:0in;">
<b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;">Nathan Miller, PE, LEED AP BD+C</span></b><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;"> –
</span></b><i><span style="font-size:8.0pt;">Mechanical Engineer/Senior Energy Analyst</span></i><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;"></span></b></div>
<div class="yiv9572653599MsoNormal" style="margin-top:3.0pt;line-height:115%;"><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;">RUSHING</span></b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;">
</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;">|</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;">
</span><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;">O</span></b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;">
</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;">206-285-7100 |</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;">
</span><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;">C</span></b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;">
</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;">207-650-3942</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;"></span></div>
<div class="yiv9572653599MsoNormal" style="line-height:115%;"><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="https://url.emailprotection.link/?a6X-5ry0mOOudUi-eMfQ7K9LfplwNoMV9idJhgEyf85c~"><span style="color:#6F1200;">www.rushingco.com</span></a></span></b><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;line-height:115%;"></span></b></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv9572653599MsoNormal"> </div>
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<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;">
<div class="yiv9572653599MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Equest-users [<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Paul Diglio via Equest-users<br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, February 2, 2018 2:19 PM<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:equest-users@onebuilding.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:equest-users@onebuilding.org">equest-users@onebuilding.org</a><br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] Slab on Grade Floor Heat Loss</div>
</div>
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<div id="yiv9572653599yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_11245">
<div class="yiv9572653599MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">I recently submitted a model to the local utility company for an incentive. Part of the buildings' first floor is slab on grade.</span></div>
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<div id="yiv9572653599yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_11309">
<div class="yiv9572653599MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">One of the comments I received back is that this erroneously shows up as an exterior surface and I should delete all the
slab on grade floors in the component tree. Doesn't seem right to me.</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9572653599yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_11372">
<div class="yiv9572653599MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></div>
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<div id="yiv9572653599yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_11378">
<div class="yiv9572653599MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">I did a few and it does reduce the overall energy consumption. In the 3D model, no floors show, just open to the interior of the zone.</span></div>
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<div class="yiv9572653599MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></div>
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<div id="yiv9572653599yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1517591308519_11373">
<div class="yiv9572653599MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">So is eQuest assuming that without this floor, there is no heat loss out the bottom of the zone? Is this reasonable?</span></div>
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<div class="yiv9572653599MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">Thank you,</span></div>
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<div class="yiv9572653599MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">Paul Diglio</span></div>
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