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Sorry, forgot my sketches.<br>
<br>
No to back tracking at this point. You may be able to recover this
easier than going back. I can see what is causing your difficulty.
It is the small section below the plenum line on the higher section
and above the roof of the lower section. It is an exterior wall and
this extends down to the floor but much of the wall is actually
interior. eQuest because it is running this, will not be giving you
correct heat loss numbers for the section of covered wall.<br>
There is another trick when entering your model from a dwg drawing.
You don't have to make a wall in one piece either. It also is a
good idea to get all your intersecting points marked so you can snap
easier to them later and get wall sections aligned exactly so you
can manipulate the pieces later.<br>
I put some lines on your sketches to illustrate. The wall we are
discussing, you have as 3 sections, I would do it as 6. At this
point in the model we are doing polygons making spaces, not zones.
You section the floor according to building features, differences in
overhang etc. You are building a thermal transfer model and you
have to be able to define the properties for every surface and what
it interfaces with. I'm not sure if you have noticed yet but eQuest
likes everything exact to 3 decimal places. So when imputing I will
have a 3D wireframe with intersection points so I can keep track of
what is going into eQuest so all the polygons are exact. A little
more care early will save days of work later. By adding sections to
the wall/ceiling/floor that match what areas you have to change
later will make it easier.<br>
So I added the first line to split the south overhang off and it
also coincides with the wall for the lower section. The floor of the
overhang will have different properties than the floor beside it
with building under it. The second add was the rear, NE, where the
lower section ends. All surfaces have to be rectangular. Now you
have 2 choices. You can adjust the size of the plenum space of the
higher section of the building or make the section of the higher
wall a hole by adjusting the bottom of the wall polygon upwards to
match the roof level. You can only adjust the plenum height if you
can do it to the whole floor otherwise you open a huge can of worms
and mess up many other walls. You could also define the lower
height section as an atrium too. You have to figure out what works.<br>
I have a feeling you are going to have to start again. Looking at
Sketch2 I don't think you are going to be able to rectify the
problem with the other 2 building projections at the back. I added
a couple more lines to the section showing how I would break it up.
I think you have insulated roof of the first floor butting to the
floor on the thin section above. It's floor also has a projection
that is an overhang. So the bottom part will need 2 sections of
roof and one section of ceiling. You will also need to tell eQuest
what section above the ceiling buts too.<br>
I don't know how you ended up with this model, whether you picked it
or you PHD advisor gave it to you but it is nasty. I have a feeling
it is your advisor, I can see many more difficulties coming up. In
the real world those 2 areas would not be the same HVAC zone. I
remember this building had more floors above. You need to take that
foot print into account too on the second floor plan if there are
exposed sections of roof/ceiling. You had mentioned a patio.<br>
In the end you will be pretty proficient at eQuest. I ran into all
this over many jobs and years. You are getting it all in on big
wack!<br>
Bruce<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 11/9/2017 2:43 PM, Jing Hong wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:20171109194353.RKSG22643.toroondcmxzimta02-srv.bellnexxia.net@tordcvbicmrk02">
<div dir="ltr">Hi Bruce,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I've attached the sketches of this building. As you see,
the northeast portion is higher than the rest, But actually
they are in the same zone. I had two shells attached to each
other and deleted the overlapping walls. So you think I should
make is in one shell, and just set the plenum in different
heights?</div>
<div>Thank you so much for your time and effort.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Jing</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 12:41 PM, Bruce
Easterbrook <span dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:bruce5@bellnet.ca" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">bruce5@bellnet.ca</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"> You shouldn't have
overlapping walls. There should be a wall between the 2
zones that is common and in 2 areas if you used the plenum
setup to deal with the height differences. It will be an
interior wall initially but can be changed to exterior if
you delete exterior walls in the second zone. You will
also need to make the ceiling below a roof which means
what you need to reflect the zones in the floor above and
the floor below. I assume you are dealing with a portion
of the floor with the different foot prints from a week or
so ago.<br>
Normally I don't use the 2 shell method but sometimes it
was the only way forward and have. It seemed to me you
wouldn't have to do that in this case. Having the 2 zones
allows you to have them at the same conditions or
different. By adding in the plenum spaces gives you 4
zones. What you are doing is trying to is mimic the
constructions and boundary conditions. By that I meant is
the surface adjacent to another zone or to the exterior.
That is the only condition you need to worry about at this
time.<br>
A few things are coming back but it has been a while since
I have done this. To eQuest a wall is just a line,
typically taken as the centre line of the wall. It has no
thickness. This can trip you up if you are using 2
shells. They have to occupy the same space before you
delete one. I know I had to play with the wireframe to
make sure I was deleting the right wall. I also remember
sometimes having to adjust the polygons as they have a
direction. That may present itself when changing an
interior wall to exterior.<br>
In short I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to do.
A picture or sketch might help. Some of these work
arounds are tricky and my time is short. I'm working from
memory to sketch the concept for you. So there might be a
few details that have escaped me.<span class="HOEnZb"><font
color="#888888"><br>
Bruce</font></span><span class=""><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="m_-7518544207277625671moz-cite-prefix">On
11/9/2017 11:47 AM, Jing Hong wrote:<br>
</div>
</span>
<blockquote type="cite"><span class="">
<div dir="ltr">Hi Bruce,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks for your patient explanation. Yes, I did
split a room into two zones (and also two shells).
And then deleted the overlapping exterior walls,
which should not exist. When you said "<span
style="font-size:12.8px">reflect what is
actually happening at the boundary</span>". Does
that mean you make the adjacent two zones the same
condition and work as one zone? Could you please
clarify how to set that up? I really appreciate. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Jing</div>
</div>
</span>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote"><span class="">On Thu, Nov 9,
2017 at 9:21 AM, Bruce Easterbrook <span
dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:bruce5@bellnet.ca"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">bruce5@bellnet.ca</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
</span>
<div>
<div class="h5">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0
0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"> Hi
Jing,<br>
It is a little difficult to tell from your
explanation of what you are doing but it
doesn't seem like the correct approach to
me. eQuest will allow you to have different
zones for the conductive/thermal model and
then different zone configurations for the
HVAC model. Differing constructions I do as
separate zones. It makes putting all the
boxes together. All surfaces have to be
accounted for. Everything has to conduct to
another zone or to the exterior. Even if
you miss a 1" strip the model will throw
errors. When you build your model I find it
better to err on the side of too many
zones. Your picks of areas for zones need
to initially reflect how the building is
constructed but also thinking of how the
building is going to be heated and cooled.<br>
I would split that zone you are working on
into 2. Each portion will cover the
different ceiling height. Give each zone a
plenum and make it the height of the
difference in the zone heights. That will
allow you to split the wall into 2 different
sections and give each one different
properties. It also gives you 2 ceilings.
Make the one with the higher ceiling an air
wall type boundary. Adjust the plenum wall
construction to reflect what is actually
happening at the boundary. Adjust the
ceiling construction of the room/plenum of
the lower zone, delete what you don't need.
Later when doing the HVAC you can put both
of these zones on the same unit. So you
don't necessarily zone a building according
to the proposed HVAC system. You have to
take the discontinuities into account and
add zones to make it easier to model. Every
thermal box has to be perfectly closed or
eQuest will stall on you. You are lucky it
tossed warning messages, these are clues to
what you have missed. You are close. It is
really bad when you crash and don't get
clues.<br>
Good luck. You seem to be coming along
fine. One other tip, stay in the detailed
wizard as long as possible. Ignore windows
and just leave them as general areas until
you get everything else worked out. Save
files lots so you can go back if something
happens. They are like restore points. The
closer you are to the crash the less work
you lose. Plus, projects change once
everyone starts looking at the modelling
results, you find more efficient ways and
need to be able to adjust your model.<br>
Bruce Easterbrook P.Eng.<br>
Abode Engineering
<div>
<div class="m_-7518544207277625671h5"><br>
<br>
<div
class="m_-7518544207277625671m_7637244212381738145moz-cite-prefix">On
11/9/2017 9:17 AM, Jing Hong via
Equest-users wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div class="m_-7518544207277625671h5">
<div dir="ltr">Dear All,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I built up two shells for a
room with two different ceiling
heights. And then deleted the
exterior walls. Now the BDL Load
File Log shows some warnings of no
delayed wall, no delay ceiling for
those spaces. Should I ignore
those warnings? Or try to fix
them? Am I doing correctly to deal
with a zone with different heights
in this way?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Jing<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div
class="m_-7518544207277625671m_7637244212381738145gmail_signature"
data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>PhD Candidate, LEED
AP BD+C</div>
<div><span
style="font-size:12.8px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span
style="font-size:12.8px">School
of Architecture and
Urban Planning</span></div>
<div>University of
Wisconsin-Milwaukee</div>
<div><br>
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</div>
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<div><br>
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-- <br>
<div class="m_-7518544207277625671gmail_signature"
data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>PhD Candidate, LEED AP BD+C</div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.8px">School
of Architecture and Urban Planning</span></div>
<div>University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee</div>
<div><br>
</div>
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-- <br>
<div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>PhD Candidate, LEED AP BD+C</div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.8px">School of
Architecture and Urban Planning</span></div>
<div>University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee</div>
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