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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I missed CC’ing the list on previous reply. Mia culpa.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Wanted to get this in archive.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#44546A;text-transform:uppercase"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#383A35;text-transform:uppercase">DARIC R ADAIR</span></b><span style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#383A35;text-transform:uppercase"> PE,
C.E.M. </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#383A35"><br>
Mechanical Engineer, Energy Analyst <br>
<br>
</span><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#008C15;text-transform:uppercase">Henderson Engineers</span></b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#383A35"><br>
<b><span style="text-transform:uppercase">Tel</span></b> (913) 742-5530 <br>
<a href="mailto:daric.adair@hendersonengineers.com"><span style="color:#383A35">daric.adair@hendersonengineers.com</span></a><br>
<br>
</span><b><span style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#383A35;text-transform:uppercase">Licensed in</span></b><span style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#383A35;text-transform:uppercase"> KS</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#383A35"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"> Nicholas Caton [mailto:Nicholas.Caton@schneider-electric.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 15, 2017 4:04 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Daric Adair <Daric.Adair@hendersonengineers.com>; Sefa Şahin <ssahin@mimtarch.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] Sea-Water Cooled Chiller Modeling<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">The alternative approach I had in mind would be to specify air-cooled remote chillers with remote condensors, then to zero out the remote condenser energies
while setting the supplied condenser temperature to a fixed temp (equaling what you expect to see coming off the seawater HX).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"><br>
I can detail that approach further for you on or off-list, but I think you’ll find the extra degree of control offered by the lake/well approach in capturing a variance in condenser supply temperature something you’ll want to be able to fall back on down the
line (particularly if you might actually anticipate variance in the temps coming off the HX, perhaps more in line with what’s happening at the building vs. what’s happening with the seawater temps).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">Either way, let us know and feel free to respond with the list copied. I’m sure you aren’t the first to dive down this path, and a continued “public” discussion
may yield a few more informed participants!</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">~Nick</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#3A7A46">Nick Caton, P.E., BEMP</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"> Daric Adair [<a href="mailto:Daric.Adair@hendersonengineers.com">mailto:Daric.Adair@hendersonengineers.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 15, 2017 3:45 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Sefa Şahin <<a href="mailto:ssahin@mimtarch.com">ssahin@mimtarch.com</a>>; Nicholas Caton <<a href="mailto:Nicholas.Caton@schneider-electric.com">Nicholas.Caton@schneider-electric.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] Sea-Water Cooled Chiller Modeling</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Sefa<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I just quick tested both methods, and got the same result in both – but this is a 5 minute model, not real or reliable for actual results.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">For results verification, I’d probably check the hourly results for Outside Air Temp vs your scheduled constant sea water temperature schedule. If the OAT is
resetting better than the sea-water temperature, then this might be possible…maybe? Also, the efficiency of the Water Cooled chiller should be better than the air-cooled unit, so the EIR would need to be adjusted as well (and changing performance curves).
If real chiller performance curve data is available this will be better/more reliable than the default eQuest curves.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">For others, this is the approach I initially took:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">It ‘feels’ weird probably due to terminology; but this is what you’re looking to achieve. Create a Condenser Water Loop, Then create a ‘Ground Loop Heat Exchanger’
– and in that menu specify it to be of lake/well type. In the settings for the ‘Ground Loop Heat Exchanger’, a constant temperature schedule can be set. This is exactly what you need. Help file provides a bit more detail (right click on ‘GXH Type:’ input).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#44546A;text-transform:uppercase">Other config:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><img border="0" width="440" height="861" style="width:4.5833in;height:8.9687in" id="Picture_x0020_4" src="cid:image007.png@01D315E0.2542AAA0" alt="cid:image013.png@01D315DD.516E86B0"><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Thanks,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#383A35;text-transform:uppercase">DARIC R ADAIR</span></b><span style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#383A35;text-transform:uppercase"> PE,
C.E.M. </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#383A35"><br>
Mechanical Engineer, Energy Analyst <br>
<br>
</span><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#008C15;text-transform:uppercase">Henderson Engineers</span></b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#383A35"><br>
<b><span style="text-transform:uppercase">Tel</span></b> (913) 742-5530 <br>
<a href="mailto:daric.adair@hendersonengineers.com"><span style="color:#383A35">daric.adair@hendersonengineers.com</span></a><br>
<br>
</span><b><span style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#383A35;text-transform:uppercase">Licensed in</span></b><span style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#383A35;text-transform:uppercase"> KS</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"> Sefa Şahin via Equest-users [<a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 15, 2017 9:31 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nicholas Caton <<a href="mailto:Nicholas.Caton@schneider-electric.com">Nicholas.Caton@schneider-electric.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Sea-Water Cooled Chiller Modeling</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Hi Nick,<br>
First of all, I can not assigned Lake/Well heat exchanger on CW loop. I can attach Lake/Well heat exchanger on Lake/Well type circulation loop and i can assign Lake/well circulation loop as chiller condenser loop. We assigned design constant sea water temperature
with temperature schedule on equest ground loop heat exchanger tab as you can see at the attachment.<br>
For example, i tryied this configuration on a simple model that include air cooled chillers. We thought that when we changed air cooled chiller with sea-water cooled chiller on same simple model, the cooling electrical consumption will be decreased. But the
cooling consumption increased. Did we think mistake? <br>
<br>
Thank you for kindly helping<br>
Best Regards<br>
Sefa<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">14.08.2017 20:03 tarihinde Nicholas Caton yazdı:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">Hi Sefa,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">Did Chris Jones’s suggestion from a few months ago to try a Lake/Well heat exchanger on the associated CW not work out?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">That would permit you to “force feed” the temperatures seen by the chillers in a direct fashion via temperature scheduling. Picture follows for clarity.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">Please update your query with what you’ve tried and what seems to be not working. I have another suggestion which may offer some relative simplicity from
a custom performance curve development standpoint, but intuitively I also would have tried the Lake/Well approach first to see if that gets the job done.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">~Nick</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#3A7A46">Nick Caton, P.E., BEMP</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#626469"> Senior Energy Engineer</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#626469"> Regional Energy Engineering Manager</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#626469"> Energy and Sustainability Services</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#626469"> Schneider Electric</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#57B069">D </span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#626469">913.564.6361
</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#57B069">M </span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#626469">785.410.3317
</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#57B069">F </span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#626469">913.564.6380</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#57B069">E </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><a href="mailto:nicholas.caton@schneider-electric.com"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#626469">nicholas.caton@schneider-electric.com</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" align="right" style="text-align:right"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#626469">15200 Santa Fe Trail Drive<br>
Suite 204<br>
Lenexa, KS 66219<br>
United States</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"> Equest-users [<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Sefa Sahin via Equest-users<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, August 14, 2017 6:36 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] Sea-Water Cooled Chiller Modeling</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p>Our project building is located in Istanbul/Turkey. Cooling will be provided by centralised two chillers. There is not a cooling tower. The project building location is very close the sea and this chillers will be fed by the sea-water condenser system.<br>
There is a titanium plate type heat exchanger between sea-water and chiller condenser water. Sea water condenser flow and return temperatures 22C(71.6F) and 27C(80.6F).
<br>
Chiller condenser water flow and return temperatures 29C(84.2F) and 23C(73.4F). In addition, condenser total water flow rate is 340 kg/hr at 250 kPa.<br>
How can sea-water condenser system be modeled in eQuest? <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Thank you,<br>
Best Regards<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt">Sefa Sahin, LEED AP BD+C<br>
Mimta EcoYapı<br>
Hekimsuyu Cad. 559. Sk. <br>
No:39 34255 Küçükköy İstanbul Türkiye <br>
Tel: 90-212-617-2296 <br>
Fax: 90-212-617-2297<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><a href="http://www.eco-yapi.com/">www.eco-yapi.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><a href="http://www.facebook.com/mimtaecoyapi">www.facebook.com/mimtaecoyapi</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><a href="http://www.linkedin.com/company/mimta">www.linkedin.com/company/mimta</a>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">-- <o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt">Sefa Sahin, LEED AP BD+C<br>
Mimta EcoYapı<br>
Hekimsuyu Cad. 559. Sk. <br>
No:39 34255 Küçükköy İstanbul Türkiye <br>
Tel: 90-212-617-2296 <br>
Fax: 90-212-617-2297<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><a href="http://www.eco-yapi.com/">www.eco-yapi.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><a href="http://www.facebook.com/mimtaecoyapi">www.facebook.com/mimtaecoyapi</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><a href="http://www.linkedin.com/company/mimta">www.linkedin.com/company/mimta</a>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p style="visibility:hidden"><span style="font-size:6.0pt">AT:2|</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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