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<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="_MailEndCompose"><span style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Hi Fred,<o:p></o:p></span></a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span lang="EN-CA" style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">You say the system will snap into overcool-reheat mode when RA humidity exceeds the limit. However according to my hourly results,
my return air humidity ratio and mix air humidity ratio NEVER surpass my maximum humidity set point, yet I still have loads on my cooling coil during the summer, and moisture removed from the airstream.<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span lang="EN-CA" style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span lang="EN-CA" style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">From the eQUEST help on the zone cooling set point schedule : “If not specified, the program will assume that the zone has no
zone-activated cooling control. If omitted, no cooling in zone.”<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span lang="EN-CA" style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span lang="EN-CA" style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">What else would be activating the cooling if its not my zones or my max humidity set point?
<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span lang="EN-CA" style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span lang="EN-CA" style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"></span><a href="http://www.bpa.ca/" target="''"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:blue;text-decoration:none"><img border="0" width="34" height="31" style="width:.3541in;height:.3229in" id="Image_x0020_3" src="cid:image001.jpg@01D2DFAB.248281A0" alt="Bouthillette Parizeau"></span></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"></span></a><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><b><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial Black",sans-serif;color:#3F3F3F">Jason</span></b></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><b><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial Black",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span></b></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><b><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial Black",sans-serif;color:#3F3F3F">Ng</span></b></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><b><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#7D7D7D">_ing.
M.Sc.A.</span></b></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><b><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial Black",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></b></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A5A5A5">jng@bpa.ca | t: 5143833747x2813<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#BFBFBF"> </span></span><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="FR">De :</span></b><span lang="FR"> Porter, Frederick NOR [mailto:fporter@noresco.com]
<br>
<b>Envoyé :</b> 7 juin 2017 13:24<br>
<b>À :</b> Ng, Jason <jng@bpa.ca>; equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Objet :</b> RE: Dehumidification issue - REPOST<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">Your ZONES are COOLED. By the mixed air delivered to them from the AHU, even if that cooling effect is not “controlled” zone by zone. Hence the term economizer COOLING. Your “zone cooling loads”
are not ignored. They reheat the air to a balance point zone temperature, and if that temperature is less than the heating setpoint, whatever zone heating exists should turn on.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">It’s not clear how the mixed air temps, and economizer, and supply air temps are controlled in the real system, which will result in more or less cooling from the central air. In eQUEST, a central
AHU will snap into overcool-reheat mode when the RA humidity exceeds the limit. It may be difficult to get the PVAVS AHU to NOT turn on the cooling coil for anything except dehumidification. Various combinations of cooling control settings might get close.
If you try to use “WARMEST” SAT reset, that may require zone cooling setpoints, even if those don’t affect any flows. eQUEST only uses the return air RELATIVE humidity to snap into overcooling, so if the zone temperatures vary from typical, the model dehumidification
may not be controlled much like the actual dehumidification. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">IF the AHU uses hot gas reheat during dehumidification, that can’t be input directly in my version of eQ, it needs to be input as a parametric component; “HVAC System”/”Cooling Condenser”/”Max Condenser
Recovery” <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">Good luck.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">Fred<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> Ng, Jason [<a href="mailto:jng@bpa.ca">mailto:jng@bpa.ca</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 07, 2017 9:00 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Porter, Frederick NOR; <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">
equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [External] RE: Dehumidification issue - REPOST<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Hi Frederick,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="color:#1F497D">To clarify, my zones are not cooled (no cooling schedules, i.e. no set point for cooling to be met, my zone cooling loads are ignored). The system has a cooling coil that is sized to take the dehumidification
load only. The system does not attempt to maintain a maximum temperature in the zone.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.bpa.ca_&d=DwMFAw&c=ilBQI1lupc9Y65XwNblLtw&r=3xdcdPfNRiIRbdcNOFLTvgBFEa2F6BAz_UMLqgqXn6k&m=ZcWH4Itbr9glL8LTFtKYjWHiIRUBi3WlqwQq1lNfJJw&s=f27U_cD-nklke55AoHfhgvYUFBW7cty7yiznGVpAQio&e=" target="''"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:blue;text-decoration:none"><img border="0" width="34" height="31" style="width:.3541in;height:.3229in" id="Image_x0020_2" src="cid:image001.jpg@01D2DFAB.248281A0" alt="Bouthillette Parizeau"></span></a><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial Black",sans-serif;color:#3F3F3F">Jason</span></b><b><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial Black",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span></b><b><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial Black",sans-serif;color:#3F3F3F">Ng</span></b><b><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#7D7D7D">_ing.
M.Sc.A.</span></b><b><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial Black",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="mailto:jng@bpa.ca"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">jng@bpa.ca</span></a><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A5A5A5"> | t: 5143833747x2813<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#BFBFBF"> </span><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="FR">De :</span></b><span lang="FR"> Porter, Frederick NOR [<a href="mailto:fporter@noresco.com">mailto:fporter@noresco.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Envoyé :</b> 7 juin 2017 10:46<br>
<b>À :</b> Ng, Jason <<a href="mailto:jng@bpa.ca">jng@bpa.ca</a>>; <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">
equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Objet :</b> RE: Dehumidification issue - REPOST<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">Jason,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">You state that this “system” will “</span><span lang="EN-CA">dehumidify air only (no cooling…</span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">” Exactly HOW does it dehumidify, if not by cooling and
condensation? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">Fred<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> Equest-users [<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Ng, Jason via Equest-users<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 24, 2017 7:14 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [External] [Equest-users] Dehumidification issue - REPOST<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hello all, <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">I posted this awhile back and received no response. Testing my luck again and hoping someone will have some insight!
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Hello list,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">I thought the dehumidification calculation would be a relatively straightforward calculation for QUEST, however, I have some results that are a bit puzzling.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">I have a simple all-electric packaged VAV system that serves living quarters of an in-patient clinic. The system has 50% OA and uses an economizer. The system is designed to heat and dehumidify air only (no cooling, none
of my zones have cooling set point schedules). My dehumidification set point is 60% RH. The building is located in Chibougamau, Quebec (quite north) where cooling and dehumidification requirements are relatively small, but still exist. According to the SS-N
report, the maximum RH is never surpassed for my system. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">This is all fine and great until you start digging a bit deeper into the hourly results of the system in question. In my hourly data report I have the following variables : Total central heating/cooling coil outputs,
dehumidification reheat heat output, return air humidity ratio, mix air humidity ratio, humidity ratio of air leaving cool coil, Moisture added or removed from air for (de)humidification, and maximum humidity set point. The strange thing I noticed is that
my return air humidity ratio and mix air humidity ratio <u>NEVER</u> surpass my maximum humidity set point, yet I still have loads on my cooling coil during the summer, and moisture removed from the airstream. Furthermore, I noticed that there are 815 hours
during which there is a load on the cooling coil, but no humidity is removed from the airstream whatsoever (mix air humidity ratio = humidity ratio of air leaving cool coil). My team here has experienced these results in more than 1 simulation that have a
system with only dehumidification requirements on the cooling side.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">So my questions are: <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt"><span lang="EN-CA">1.</span><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
</span><span lang="EN-CA">How does eQUEST control the maximum humidity allowed in the supply airstream?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt"><span lang="EN-CA">2.</span><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
</span><span lang="EN-CA">How could one possibly explain a cooling load/consumption without any cooling set point schedules in any of the zones supplied by my system and
<u>zero</u> moisture removed from the air?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Any insights would be much appreciated!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Many thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
</span><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.bpa.ca_&d=DwMFAw&c=ilBQI1lupc9Y65XwNblLtw&r=3xdcdPfNRiIRbdcNOFLTvgBFEa2F6BAz_UMLqgqXn6k&m=QRUn_fz_LOs_iOHt_0-lov2KxZe7ZclvRy6XedxQqHM&s=Xl2kZgukQwhwIiwsR-cVKoQgFE-OJwy5oJyK0Zr8kzQ&e=" target="''"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:blue;text-decoration:none"><img border="0" width="85" height="88" style="width:.8854in;height:.9166in" id="Image_x0020_1" src="cid:image002.jpg@01D2DFA9.A3E58200" alt="Bouthillette Parizeau"></span></a><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial Black",sans-serif;color:#3F3F3F">Jason</span></b><b><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial Black",sans-serif"> <span style="color:#3F3F3F">Ng</span></span></b><b><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#7D7D7D">_ing.
M.Sc.A.</span></b><b><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial Black",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A5A5A5"><a href="mailto:jng@bpa.ca" title="Envoyer un courriel/Send email"><span lang="EN-CA" style="color:#A5A5A5">jng@bpa.ca</span></a></span><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A5A5A5">
| </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A5A5A5"><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.bpa.ca&d=DwMFAw&c=ilBQI1lupc9Y65XwNblLtw&r=3xdcdPfNRiIRbdcNOFLTvgBFEa2F6BAz_UMLqgqXn6k&m=QRUn_fz_LOs_iOHt_0-lov2KxZe7ZclvRy6XedxQqHM&s=ltbl3nk22R3GJG3At72nnGWr5THYZpEEzk6UvPZ2Cj8&e=" target="_blank" title="www.bpa.ca"><span lang="EN-CA" style="color:#A5A5A5">www.bpa.ca</span></a></span><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A5A5A5"> | t:
5143833747x2813<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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identifiée(s) comme destinataires et sont confidentielles. Si vous n’en êtes pas le destinataire, soyez avisé que tout usage en est interdit. Si vous avez reçu ce courriel par erreur, veuillez le retourner à l’expéditeur et le supprimer complètement de votre
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