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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Jason, I think one mix-up may be the lingo – if the zones or supply air have heat removed, then it is being cooled even if the cooling is provided for dehumidification purposes, or if the economizer is operating
and the zones are cooled as a byproduct of dehumidification. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Where is the 60% RH setpoint entered? The system could still supply lower humidity air to the spaces in order to maintain RH in the zones. I don’t see why this would require the coil to operate though, unless
the packaged system requires one control zone that has a temperature control schedule. If none was provided is one made by default?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">David<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">David S. Eldridge, Jr., P.E., LEED AP BD+C, BEMP, BEAP, HBDP</span><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:#244061">Grumman/Butkus Associates</span></b><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></u><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Equest-users [mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Ng, Jason via Equest-users<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 07, 2017 10:00 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Porter, Frederick NOR <fporter@noresco.com>; equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Dehumidification issue - REPOST<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="_MailEndCompose"><span lang="FR-CA" style="color:#1F497D">Hi Frederick,<o:p></o:p></span></a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR-CA" style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="color:#1F497D">To clarify, my zones are not cooled (no cooling schedules, i.e. no set point for cooling to be met, my zone cooling loads are ignored). The system has a cooling coil that is sized to take the dehumidification
load only. The system does not attempt to maintain a maximum temperature in the zone.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://www.bpa.ca/" target="''"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:blue;text-decoration:none"><img border="0" width="34" height="31" id="Image_x0020_2" src="cid:image001.jpg@01D2DF8C.8AA80B90" alt="Bouthillette Parizeau"></span></a><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial Black",sans-serif;color:#3F3F3F">Jason</span></b><b><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial Black",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span></b><b><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial Black",sans-serif;color:#3F3F3F">Ng</span></b><b><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#7D7D7D">_ing.
M.Sc.A.</span></b><b><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial Black",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="mailto:jng@bpa.ca"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">jng@bpa.ca</span></a><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A5A5A5"> | t: 5143833747x2813<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#BFBFBF"> </span><span lang="FR-CA" style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="FR">De :</span></b><span lang="FR"> Porter, Frederick NOR [</span><a href="mailto:fporter@noresco.com"><span lang="FR">mailto:fporter@noresco.com</span></a><span lang="FR">]
<br>
<b>Envoyé :</b> 7 juin 2017 10:46<br>
<b>À :</b> Ng, Jason <</span><a href="mailto:jng@bpa.ca"><span lang="FR">jng@bpa.ca</span></a><span lang="FR">>;
</span><a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org"><span lang="FR">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</span></a><span lang="FR"><br>
<b>Objet :</b> RE: Dehumidification issue - REPOST<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Jason,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">You state that this “system” will “</span><span lang="EN-CA">dehumidify air only (no cooling…</span><span style="color:#1F497D">” Exactly HOW does it dehumidify, if not by cooling and condensation?
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Fred<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> Equest-users [</span><a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</span></a><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Ng, Jason via Equest-users<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 24, 2017 7:14 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> </span><a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</span></a><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [External] [Equest-users] Dehumidification issue - REPOST<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR-CA">Hello all, <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">I posted this awhile back and received no response. Testing my luck again and hoping someone will have some insight!
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Hello list,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">I thought the dehumidification calculation would be a relatively straightforward calculation for QUEST, however, I have some results that are a bit puzzling.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">I have a simple all-electric packaged VAV system that serves living quarters of an in-patient clinic. The system has 50% OA and uses an economizer. The system is designed to heat and dehumidify air only (no cooling, none
of my zones have cooling set point schedules). My dehumidification set point is 60% RH. The building is located in Chibougamau, Quebec (quite north) where cooling and dehumidification requirements are relatively small, but still exist. According to the SS-N
report, the maximum RH is never surpassed for my system. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">This is all fine and great until you start digging a bit deeper into the hourly results of the system in question. In my hourly data report I have the following variables : Total central heating/cooling coil outputs,
dehumidification reheat heat output, return air humidity ratio, mix air humidity ratio, humidity ratio of air leaving cool coil, Moisture added or removed from air for (de)humidification, and maximum humidity set point. The strange thing I noticed is that
my return air humidity ratio and mix air humidity ratio <u>NEVER</u> surpass my maximum humidity set point, yet I still have loads on my cooling coil during the summer, and moisture removed from the airstream. Furthermore, I noticed that there are 815 hours
during which there is a load on the cooling coil, but no humidity is removed from the airstream whatsoever (mix air humidity ratio = humidity ratio of air leaving cool coil). My team here has experienced these results in more than 1 simulation that have a
system with only dehumidification requirements on the cooling side.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">So my questions are: <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in"><span lang="EN-CA">1.</span><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
</span><span lang="EN-CA">How does eQUEST control the maximum humidity allowed in the supply airstream?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in"><span lang="EN-CA">2.</span><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
</span><span lang="EN-CA">How could one possibly explain a cooling load/consumption without any cooling set point schedules in any of the zones supplied by my system and
<u>zero</u> moisture removed from the air?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Any insights would be much appreciated!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Many thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
</span><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.bpa.ca_&d=DwMFAw&c=ilBQI1lupc9Y65XwNblLtw&r=3xdcdPfNRiIRbdcNOFLTvgBFEa2F6BAz_UMLqgqXn6k&m=QRUn_fz_LOs_iOHt_0-lov2KxZe7ZclvRy6XedxQqHM&s=Xl2kZgukQwhwIiwsR-cVKoQgFE-OJwy5oJyK0Zr8kzQ&e=" target="''"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:blue;text-decoration:none"><img border="0" width="85" height="88" id="Image_x0020_1" src="cid:image002.jpg@01D2DF8C.8AA80B90" alt="Bouthillette Parizeau"></span></a><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial Black",sans-serif;color:#3F3F3F">Jason</span></b><b><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial Black",sans-serif"> <span style="color:#3F3F3F">Ng</span></span></b><b><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#7D7D7D">_ing.
M.Sc.A.</span></b><b><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial Black",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="mailto:jng@bpa.ca" title="Envoyer un courriel/Send email"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A5A5A5">jng@bpa.ca</span></a><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A5A5A5">
| </span><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.bpa.ca&d=DwMFAw&c=ilBQI1lupc9Y65XwNblLtw&r=3xdcdPfNRiIRbdcNOFLTvgBFEa2F6BAz_UMLqgqXn6k&m=QRUn_fz_LOs_iOHt_0-lov2KxZe7ZclvRy6XedxQqHM&s=ltbl3nk22R3GJG3At72nnGWr5THYZpEEzk6UvPZ2Cj8&e=" target="_blank" title="www.bpa.ca"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A5A5A5">www.bpa.ca</span></a><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A5A5A5"> | t:
5143833747x2813<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#BFBFBF">Les informations contenues dans le courriel que vous venez de recevoir, y compris les pièces jointes, sont destinées à l’usage exclusif de la (ou des)
personne(s) identifiée(s) comme destinataires et sont confidentielles. Si vous n’en êtes pas le destinataire, soyez avisé que tout usage en est interdit. Si vous avez reçu ce courriel par erreur, veuillez le retourner à l’expéditeur et le supprimer complètement
de votre système informatique.</span><span lang="FR-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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