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With the speed this field is moving several of the main standards
are under continuous review and have a very large list of addenda.
Many times something that was a problem in application or thought
process or intent in an earlier version of the standard is debated
as an addendum, if approved it is accepted. All these adjustments
and fixes are wrapped into the next version. So you could find the
answer to your question in a much later version where the have
really pinned down the wording so everything is clear. In my
humble opinion this new clarity would apply to all previous versions
because it is logic and application. It doesn't always apply to
moving the bar higher which is what you are concerned with because
your project is 2007. There also might be even more clarification
in a even newer version because as these standards get applied by
more modeller's over an increasing array of buildings and projects
cracks will show and they get fixed. Also the previous projects are
now built and everyone can see how they are working in the field.
What works, what doesn't and why and more addenda.<br>
The small experiments done on the differences in technique show
there is very little difference in the effect of the approaches.
Maybe a discussion with the reviewer might show some illumination to
the issue. It is a rapidly evolving standard and that makes it hard
to stay current with all the nuances.<br>
Bruce Easterbrook P.Eng.<br>
Abode Engineering<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/24/2017 3:43 AM, Pasha
Korber-Gonzalez wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:20170424074508.BWPI7399.toroondcmxzimta03-srv.bellnexxia.net@tordcvbicmrk03"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Hi All-- Thank you for this in depth discussion and
taking time to go over all of this. (I was away from work for a
few days, thus my delayed response.)
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I agree with the commentary regarding how REAL LIFE
operations happen in VAV systems, and yes modulating airflow
is the first approach. However, i did always find it odd that
temp first was stated in Appendix G, but who am I to question
Appendix G, right?<br>
<br>
As for the discussion of direction from the PNNL User's
Manual-- that is interesting, and I hadn't seen that document
prior to now because I am still only working on projects that
reference ASHRAE 90.1-2007. Therefore I have had no need or
time to look at the 2010 version or any supporting
docs...which brings us to the next debate:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Why should anyone be referencing a 2010 version document
for guidance for a 2007 version compliance model/project?
Therefore it seems prudent to stand firm to follow exactly
what the governed/reference standard states-explicitly which
is "temperature reset." </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>But then- Thank you Daric for confirming that the 2007
version User's Manual doesn't specifically guide us on how to
meet the criteria of that section. AND thank you Daric for
also conducting a minor experiment on your model. (I will do
the same with a couple of mine this week.) </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So based on what I have learned from this awesome
discussion/debate, I will assume that my third party reviewer
(non GBCI group) was indeed referencing the PNNL User's Manual
for the 2010 version, possibly out of habit, and/or not even
aware that the LEED guided project they were contracted for
reviewing (my model, which I was contracted to produce by the
Architect & owner) is in fact registered as a LEED 2009
project that is referencing and following ASHRAE 90.1-2007
version.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Hmm, I'm in a quandary of how to take action for my model
based on this questionable review comment- who is not the
actual LEED reviewer. This seems like a weird situation to be
in...</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks again for all your input on this topic!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Pasha Korber</div>
<div>Ph 308-763-1593</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.korberenergy.com">www.korberenergy.com</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 8:49 AM,
Daric Adair <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Daric.Adair@hei-eng.com" target="_blank">Daric.Adair@hei-eng.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="white" link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72"
lang="EN-US">
<div class="m_5603468327082964812WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Agreed
on ventilation. But 90.1 Appendix G addresses the
VAV box minimums for Baseline models in
G3.1.3.13/G3.1.3.14. The box minimums must take
ventilation into account.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Fan
energy is a major element. Several of my more
recent models have had fan energy on par with
heating and cooling energy. Both for baseline and
proposed models. Fans unload nicely…which is a
blessing and a curse.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Running
some quick diagnostic tests on a couple of my most
recent models, the difference in the two control
strategies didn’t yield a massive difference. But
one test does not a trend make….in any sense, the
Temperature Frist reset set was 0.29% lower on a
cost basis…</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Another
factor specific to eQuest, when using Airflow
first control, is the ‘</span>MIN-RESET-FLOW’
<span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">variable.
This defaults to 0.66. Which from the help files
seems to indicate that the it will only allow the
fan to reset to this level (0.66 in this case/by
default) before starting temperature reset.
Modifying this value impacts when the system will
start to modify the DAT. This did have an impact
on the results, but not very underwhelming at best
from my very limited testing pool….</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">In
short, it gets back to which element should unload
first – fans vs chiller/boiler. Fan curves are
dictated for Appendix G (and Fan laws). Chiller
curves are not provided/dictated for Appendix G,
but performance is. Similar for boilers. In a
‘real’ system with actual equipment curves, it
would be a balance between savings from the fan
slowing vs savings from central plant equipment
unloadng (which has more complex relationships).</span></p>
<span class="">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#44546a;text-transform:uppercase"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#44546a;text-transform:uppercase"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#44546a;text-transform:uppercase"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#44546a;text-transform:uppercase"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Thanks,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial
Black",sans-serif;text-transform:uppercase">DARIC R. ADAIR</span><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">
</span><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial
Black",sans-serif;text-transform:uppercase"> PE, C.E.M.</span><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">
<br>
</span><b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#566c11">Henderson
Engineers, Inc. | </span></b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#566c11">Mechanical
Engineer, Energy Analyst</span><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><br>
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<br>
</span><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Licensed
in KS.</span><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
</span>
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<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">
Bruce Easterbrook [mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bruce5@bellnet.ca"
target="_blank">bruce5@bellnet.ca</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 20, 2017 10:24 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Daric Adair <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Daric.Adair@hei-eng.com"
target="_blank">Daric.Adair@hei-eng.com</a>>;
Jennings, Coles <Coles.Jennings@<wbr>MasonandHanger.com>;
PKConsulting <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:pasha.pkconsulting@gmail.com"
target="_blank">pasha.pkconsulting@gmail.com</a>><wbr>;
Shaun Martin <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:smartin@shaunmartinconsulting.com"
target="_blank">smartin@<wbr>shaunmartinconsulting.com</a>></span></p>
<div>
<div class="h5"><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:equest-users@onebuilding.org"
target="_blank">equest-users@onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Supply Air
Temp Reset Interpretation Please...?</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="h5">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">I
may be all wet here but one other consideration
is OA. If there is no DOAS then the VAV system
is supplying the OA to the zones. A drop in
flow could reduce the OA below minimum
requirements for the zones. A temp first reset
would maintain airflow and the OA air portion.
With energy consumption, cooling and heating are
the most expensive components of the flow and
then the fan energy. This is why economizers
are very energy efficient in the right
conditions.<br>
So ultimately you have to meet ASHRAE 90.1 and
also 62.1. These are also baseline systems,
just setting the low bar before we start to
tinker. All points and justification come from
the magnitude you can exceed the baseline. The
baseline has been ratcheting up, things are not
as easy now and almost all the low hanging fruit
is gone.<br>
I was reading an article in the online Journal
this morning from 2014. Part of it concerned
fan efficiency, FC, AF and plenum with direct
and belt drive. Now that efficiency is getting
right down to belt slippage you know there isn't
much left to play with.<br>
Bruce Easterbrook P.Eng.<br>
Abode Engineering</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 4/20/2017 6:54 PM, Daric
Adair via Equest-users wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">All;</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Great
discussion.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">For
context, the text of G3.1.3.12 is: “Supply
Air Temperature Reset (System 5 through8).
The air temperature for cooling shall be
reset higher by 5F under the minimum cooling
load conditions.”</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Stepping
back, the reset is said to occur at ‘the
minimum cooling load condition.’ Thinking
through how a typlica/real VAV system will
control, the terminal box dampers will close
towards their minimum as the cooling load in
a zone decreases. In a ‘real’ building this
should cause the Supply fan to see a
pressure increase and slow down to get back
to its static pressure setpoint. At some
point if all of the boxes are at a minimum
position (aka, minimum cooling demand), the
Supply Air Temperature should/can be
increased.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Looking
through the above, this would indicate an
Air Flow first reset, before increasing the
discharge temperature.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Per
the eQuest help file, it would seem to
indicate that a ‘Temp-First’ approach
attempts to reset the temperature, without
modulating the fan down. This seems fairly
odd in a ‘real’ system since in that if any
single zone calls for cooling, no reset
occurs, no energy saved. Even if it is a
Baseline, it should have some sort of gut
check to it. If it were a ‘real’ system and
going Prescriptive path, it would be subject
to Section 6.5.2. I didn’t see any
requirement (Mandatory or Prescriptive) for
DAT reset….(but I may be missing it….)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Therefore,
I’d think in a VAV system the Air-Flow first
modulation, then allow the DAT to reset
would be the intended path.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Another
minor bit of confusion here: The 90.1 ASHREA
User’s Manual does not offer much guidance
here. There is new guide from PNNL for the
90.1-2010 standard, which is what is also
mentioned below. Just want to clarify for
readers that these are two separate (and
both are useful) guides.</span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#44546a;text-transform:uppercase"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#44546a;text-transform:uppercase"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#44546a;text-transform:uppercase"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Thanks,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">DARIC R. ADAIR</span><span
style="font-size:8.0pt"> PE, C.E.M.</span><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><br>
</span><b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#566c11">Henderson
Engineers, Inc. | </span></b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#566c11">Mechanical
Engineer, Energy Analyst</span><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><br>
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href="mailto:daric.adair@hei-eng.com"
target="_blank">daric.adair@hei-eng.com</a></span><span
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<br>
</span><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Licensed
in KS.</span><span
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid
#e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
Jennings, Coles via Equest-users [<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org"
target="_blank">mailto:equest-users@lists.<wbr>onebuilding.org</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 20, 2017
10:38 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> PKConsulting <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:pasha.pkconsulting@gmail.com"
target="_blank"><pasha.pkconsulting@gmail.com></a><wbr>;
Shaun Martin
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:smartin@shaunmartinconsulting.com"
target="_blank"><smartin@<wbr>shaunmartinconsulting.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:equest-users@onebuilding.org"
target="_blank">equest-users@onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users]
Supply Air Temp Reset Interpretation
Please...?</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I
wanted to chime in quickly, because this is
an interesting question that we’ve gone back
and forth on in my office as well.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I
don’t agree with the stance that, because
the section is labelled supply air
temperature reset, therefore temperature
first is the correct input. Airflow
modulation is a given for VAV systems
(baseline systems 5 through 8), so the
question is not whether airflow modulates,
but what takes precedence between the
airflow modulation inherent in a VAV system
and the temperature modulation also required
by 90.1. The three possible combinations are
reflected in the available eQUEST inputs:
“temperature first,” “airflow first,” or
“simultaneous.”</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">In
my view, the correct order of priority
between temperature and airflow modulation
is not something the standard directly
addresses. Absent clear direction in the
standard, I would then look for any <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.ashrae.org/standards-research--technology/standards-interpretations/interpretation-for-standard-90-1-2010https:/www.ashrae.org/standards-research--technology/standards-interpretations/interpretation-for-standard-90-1-2010"
target="_blank">
formal interpretations</a> of the standard
issued by ASHRAE, and if that still doesn’t
clear it up, then a user’s manual may be the
next best thing. A user’s manual such as the
PNNL manual at least provides specific
direction by a neutral third party, which is
often a great way to make a case to the
reviewing authority (GBCI reviewer, code
official, etc...).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><br>
<br>
</span><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Coles
Jennings</span></b><span
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target="_blank"><span
style="color:#224bf1;text-decoration:none">Mason
& Hanger</span></a>
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</span><b><i><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Adobe
Garamond ;color:#BA0C2F",serif">We
do what we say.®</span></i></b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">
<br>
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<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid
#e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
Equest-users [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">mailto:equest-users-bounces@<wbr>lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>PKConsulting via
Equest-users<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 20, 2017
11:19 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Shaun Martin <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:smartin@shaunmartinconsulting.com"
target="_blank">smartin@<wbr>shaunmartinconsulting.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org"
target="_blank">equest-users@lists.<wbr>onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users]
Supply Air Temp Reset Interpretation
Please...?</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Yes! Thanks Shaun- even
one count of validation makes me feel not so
crazy
<span style="font-family:"Segoe UI
Symbol",sans-serif">😜</span>,
especially from an old colleague. Thank
you- thank you. Why is there too much room
for interpretation on these things? I
accept that the User Manual is helpful in
most scenarios- but this is one instance
that just seems backwards. If it is
supposed to airflow reset controls, then
why is the section written with "Supply Air
Temperature Reset"?</p>
</div>
<div
id="m_5603468327082964812AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div
id="m_5603468327082964812AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal">I appreciate your
validation of my interpretation.</p>
</div>
<div
id="m_5603468327082964812AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
Pasha</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Ph: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:%28308%29%20763-1593"
value="+13087631593" target="_blank">308-763-1593</a></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
On Apr 20, 2017, at 8:29 AM, Shaun Martin
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:smartin@shaunmartinconsulting.com"
target="_blank">smartin@<wbr>shaunmartinconsulting.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Hi,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I
think the Standard is quite clear about
resetting temperature, and says nothing
about modulating airflow. The user
manual seems to be wrong.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Shaun
Martin LEED-AP, BEMP</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Principal</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Shaun
Martin Consulting</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">#90
– 425 Carrall Street</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Vancouver,
BC V6B 6E3</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">p.
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:%28604%29%20789-1095"
value="+16047891095" target="_blank">604-789-1095</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></p>
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moz-do-not-send="true"
name="m_5603468327082964812__MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></a></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid
#e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
Equest-users [<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org"
target="_blank">mailto:equest-users-bounces@<wbr>lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>PKConsulting
via Equest-users<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 20,
2017 7:12 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Jones, Christopher <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Christopher.r.Jones@wspgroup.com"
target="_blank">Christopher.r.Jones@wspgroup.<wbr>com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org"
target="_blank">equest-users@lists.<wbr>onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users]
Supply Air Temp Reset Interpretation
Please...?</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks for the
feedback- so if the justification for
the approach is solely based on the user
manual explanation- I can accept that.
I'll cross reference it for the 2007
user manual to put it in my notes.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I've always used
air-flow first as a standard reset for
all my design energy models, What is
counter-intuitive here is that the title
of the Appendix G section specifically
states 'reset-temp', so why should we
not take the section text literally?
I've always humbly assumed that the
ASHRAE standard writers know more than
me. After all these years of creating
Baseline conforming models (or so I
thought), this makes me feel lost all
over again. AND is it not possible to
apply code standard requirements without
the use of the User Manual? </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Thankful-
but-frustrated,</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Pasha</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Ph: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:%28308%29%20763-1593"
value="+13087631593"
target="_blank">308-763-1593</a></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
On Apr 20, 2017, at 6:48 AM, Jones,
Christopher <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Christopher.r.Jones@wspgroup.com"
target="_blank">Christopher.r.Jones@wspgroup.<wbr>com</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I
had always assumed temperature first
but reading the PNNL 90.1-2010
Performance Rating Method Reference
Manual, 3.121 (pdf page 151), it
states “For systems 5 through 8, the
air temperature for cooling shall be
reset higher by 5°F under the
minimum cooling load conditions
using a reset by warmest zone,
airflow first strategy.”</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">The
manual states that the airflow first
strategy minimizes zone reheat coil
energy ( or overcooling) and central
chiller energy consumption at the
cost of possible increased fan
energy. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Unfortunately,
the reviewer may have a case.
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-CA"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><image001.jpg></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:6.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-GB">Christopher R. Jones</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-GB">, P.Eng.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-GB">Technical Specialist</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-GB">WSP Canada Inc.</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-GB"><br>
</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">2300
Yonge Street, Suite 2300</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Toronto,
ON M4P 1E4 Canada</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-GB"><br>
</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">T
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:%28416%29%20644-0252"
value="+14166440252"
target="_blank">+1 416-644-0252</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.wspgroup.ca_&d=DwMFaQ&c=xB5UQg5qXm2axe_t44neldV-XNditz6D2ZXZLA0vHlE&r=JrIPsTq2z-_669uhqn51VqSZFL7dpX6NqxKBTKpeQZ9m5XksAJHnQhCI_rEcbMFG&m=TUl4CO4lm0_JnjocmrzLbupzOeFu-9zJ4Wttnq-IxpY&s=wcUq0_D9t-Xi40LrszT5MooY6bxaUqaU8_S_1WcmUOY&e="
target="_blank"><span
style="color:blue">www.wspgroup.ca</span></a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-autospace:none"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#7f7f7f"> </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-autospace:none"><i><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#6ea900">Please
consider the environment before
printing...</span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-CA"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
Equest-users [<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org"
target="_blank">mailto:equest-users-bounces@<wbr>lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Pasha
Korber-Gonzalez via Equest-users<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 20,
2017 3:59 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> eQUEST Users List <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org"
target="_blank">equest-users@lists.<wbr>onebuilding.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users]
Supply Air Temp Reset Interpretation
Please...?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hello--- I
received this note from a fellow
energy model reviewer (non-LEED
review comment) regarding my
Baseline energy model that is
supposed to be compliant with
Appendix G. I disagree with what
they are saying. I appreciate your
feedback please and verification if
in fact I am wrong in how I am
interpreting Section G3.1.3.12.</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">"We believe
TEMP-FIRST supply air reset
control strategy is not the
correct interpretation of
G3.1.3.12 – rather, AIRFLOW-FIRST
should be used."</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks!</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Pasha</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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