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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">All;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Great discussion.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">For context, the text of G3.1.3.12 is: “Supply Air Temperature Reset (System 5 through8). The air temperature for cooling shall be reset higher by 5F under the
minimum cooling load conditions.”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Stepping back, the reset is said to occur at ‘the minimum cooling load condition.’ Thinking through how a typlica/real VAV system will control, the terminal box
dampers will close towards their minimum as the cooling load in a zone decreases. In a ‘real’ building this should cause the Supply fan to see a pressure increase and slow down to get back to its static pressure setpoint. At some point if all of the boxes
are at a minimum position (aka, minimum cooling demand), the Supply Air Temperature should/can be increased.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Looking through the above, this would indicate an Air Flow first reset, before increasing the discharge temperature.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Per the eQuest help file, it would seem to indicate that a ‘Temp-First’ approach attempts to reset the temperature, without modulating the fan down. This seems
fairly odd in a ‘real’ system since in that if any single zone calls for cooling, no reset occurs, no energy saved. Even if it is a Baseline, it should have some sort of gut check to it. If it were a ‘real’ system and going Prescriptive path, it would be subject
to Section 6.5.2. I didn’t see any requirement (Mandatory or Prescriptive) for DAT reset….(but I may be missing it….)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Therefore, I’d think in a VAV system the Air-Flow first modulation, then allow the DAT to reset would be the intended path.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Another minor bit of confusion here: The 90.1 ASHREA User’s Manual does not offer much guidance here. There is new guide from PNNL for the 90.1-2010 standard,
which is what is also mentioned below. Just want to clarify for readers that these are two separate (and both are useful) guides.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#44546A;text-transform:uppercase"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#44546A;text-transform:uppercase"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#44546A;text-transform:uppercase"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial Black",sans-serif;color:black;text-transform:uppercase">DARIC R. ADAIR</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Jennings, Coles via Equest-users [mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 20, 2017 10:38 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> PKConsulting <pasha.pkconsulting@gmail.com>; Shaun Martin <smartin@shaunmartinconsulting.com><br>
<b>Cc:</b> equest-users@onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Supply Air Temp Reset Interpretation Please...?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I wanted to chime in quickly, because this is an interesting question that we’ve gone back and forth on in my office as well.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I don’t agree with the stance that, because the section is labelled supply air temperature reset, therefore temperature first is the correct input. Airflow modulation
is a given for VAV systems (baseline systems 5 through 8), so the question is not whether airflow modulates, but what takes precedence between the airflow modulation inherent in a VAV system and the temperature modulation also required by 90.1. The three possible
combinations are reflected in the available eQUEST inputs: “temperature first,” “airflow first,” or “simultaneous.”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">In my view, the correct order of priority between temperature and airflow modulation is not something the standard directly addresses. Absent clear direction
in the standard, I would then look for any <a href="https://www.ashrae.org/standards-research--technology/standards-interpretations/interpretation-for-standard-90-1-2010https:/www.ashrae.org/standards-research--technology/standards-interpretations/interpretation-for-standard-90-1-2010">
formal interpretations</a> of the standard issued by ASHRAE, and if that still doesn’t clear it up, then a user’s manual may be the next best thing. A user’s manual such as the PNNL manual at least provides specific direction by a neutral third party, which
is often a great way to make a case to the reviewing authority (GBCI reviewer, code official, etc...).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><br>
<br>
</span><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Coles Jennings</span></b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> PE, BEMP, LEED AP BD+C
<br>
Sr. Energy Engineer, Building Sciences Manager </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#BA0C2F">|
</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Mason & Hanger
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</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Equest-users [<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>PKConsulting via Equest-users<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 20, 2017 11:19 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Shaun Martin <<a href="mailto:smartin@shaunmartinconsulting.com">smartin@shaunmartinconsulting.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Supply Air Temp Reset Interpretation Please...?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Yes! Thanks Shaun- even one count of validation makes me feel not so crazy
<span style="font-family:"Segoe UI Symbol",sans-serif">😜</span>, especially from an old colleague. Thank you- thank you. Why is there too much room for interpretation on these things? I accept that the User Manual is helpful in most scenarios- but this
is one instance that just seems backwards. If it is supposed to airflow reset controls, then why is the section written with "Supply Air Temperature Reset"?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I appreciate your validation of my interpretation.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
Pasha<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Ph: 308-763-1593<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
On Apr 20, 2017, at 8:29 AM, Shaun Martin <<a href="mailto:smartin@shaunmartinconsulting.com">smartin@shaunmartinconsulting.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Hi,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I think the Standard is quite clear about resetting temperature, and says nothing about modulating airflow. The user manual seems to be wrong.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Shaun Martin LEED-AP, BEMP</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Principal</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Shaun Martin Consulting</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">#90 – 425 Carrall Street</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Vancouver, BC V6B 6E3</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">p. 604-789-1095</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Equest-users [<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>PKConsulting via Equest-users<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 20, 2017 7:12 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Jones, Christopher <<a href="mailto:Christopher.r.Jones@wspgroup.com">Christopher.r.Jones@wspgroup.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Supply Air Temp Reset Interpretation Please...?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks for the feedback- so if the justification for the approach is solely based on the user manual explanation- I can accept that. I'll cross reference it for the 2007 user manual to put it in my notes.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I've always used air-flow first as a standard reset for all my design energy models, What is counter-intuitive here is that the title of the Appendix G section specifically states 'reset-temp', so why should we not take the section text
literally? I've always humbly assumed that the ASHRAE standard writers know more than me. After all these years of creating Baseline conforming models (or so I thought), this makes me feel lost all over again. AND is it not possible to apply code standard
requirements without the use of the User Manual? <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Thankful- but-frustrated,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Pasha<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Ph: 308-763-1593<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
On Apr 20, 2017, at 6:48 AM, Jones, Christopher <<a href="mailto:Christopher.r.Jones@wspgroup.com">Christopher.r.Jones@wspgroup.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I had always assumed temperature first but reading the PNNL 90.1-2010 Performance Rating Method Reference Manual, 3.121 (pdf page 151), it states “For systems
5 through 8, the air temperature for cooling shall be reset higher by 5°F under the minimum cooling load conditions using a reset by warmest zone, airflow first strategy.”</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">The manual states that the airflow first strategy minimizes zone reheat coil energy ( or overcooling) and central chiller energy consumption at the cost of possible
increased fan energy. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Unfortunately, the reviewer may have a case.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#6EA900;mso-fareast-language:FR">Please consider the environment before printing...</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Equest-users [<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Pasha Korber-Gonzalez via Equest-users<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 20, 2017 3:59 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> eQUEST Users List <<a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] Supply Air Temp Reset Interpretation Please...?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hello--- I received this note from a fellow energy model reviewer (non-LEED review comment) regarding my Baseline energy model that is supposed to be compliant with Appendix G. I disagree with what they are saying. I appreciate your feedback
please and verification if in fact I am wrong in how I am interpreting Section G3.1.3.12.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">"We believe TEMP-FIRST supply air reset control strategy is not the correct interpretation of G3.1.3.12 – rather, AIRFLOW-FIRST should be used."<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks!<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Pasha<o:p></o:p></p>
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