<div dir="ltr"><font color="#073763">Hi Bikesh,</font><div><br></div><div><font color="#660000">My clarifications are as follows:</font><div><br><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 10:08 PM, Fred Betz <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:fbetz@aeieng.com" target="_blank">fbetz@aeieng.com</a>></span> wrote:</div><div class="gmail_quote"><span style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><br></span></div><div class="gmail_quote"><span style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt">Short answer is yes, these technologies have been applied for LEED savings. You’ll need to do an exceptional calculation as eQUEST can’t model an atomizing system to my knowledge.</span></div><div class="gmail_quote"><div> </div><div><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(102,0,0);font-size:11pt">[SK]:After doing the exceptional calculation you may be able to find whether there can be savings or not. There can be easy savings if there is less electricity used in spray or atomizing </span><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(102,0,0);font-size:14.6667px">humidifier</span><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(102,0,0);font-size:11pt"> and there is </span><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(102,0,0);font-size:14.6667px">substantial</span><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(102,0,0);font-size:11pt"> cooling and humidification due to the humidification process.May be the art galary uses too high level of humidity to as to have good comfort condition for the art things and might be it would be in some cool areas.</span></div><div><span style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt">There may be heating savings using atomizing, but it depends on the system design.</span></div><div><br></div><div><font color="#660000">[SK]: Due to humidification after spray atomizer the latent heat will be transferred from the room to the small minute water droplets and the air will become cooler and there can be lesser electricity for the cooling part.Also there might be less heating requirement as there can be enough heating due to moisture laden heat of the space.</font></div><div><span style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt">Steam boilers typically operate between 80-85% depending on technology whereas a hot water preheat coil served by a condensing boiler and/or a heat recovery chiller would achieve
95% efficiency or better.</span></div><div><span style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><font color="#660000">[SK]: I'm not clear about this point.</font></span></div><div><span style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt">The electrical energy required to provide water for the atomizing system should also be accounted for in the analysis. Many use RO systems that use a fair bit of electricity.
RO system efficiency ranges from 50-80% depending on size so on an energy cost basis it may not pan out depending on utility rates. Also, there’s some pumping energy for the hot water preheat coil.</span></div><div><span style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><br></span></div><div><font face="calibri, sans-serif" color="#660000"><span style="font-size:11pt">[SK]: RO or reverse osmosis is the process of moving of fluid from higher </span><span style="font-size:14.6667px">concentration</span><span style="font-size:11pt"> to lower concentration. The air is always a low density medium so we can say that it is not RO but it is being operated by electrical means. Small amount of electricity is required to atomized or </span><span style="font-size:14.6667px">spray</span><span style="font-size:11pt"> the water droplets into the room.</span></font></div><div><span style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt">That said I believe it’s much easier to permit and operate an atomizing system than a steam boiler so if your only steam need is humidification and you’re installing a whole
boiler system for just that, it may not payback even if the steam system uses less energy cost. That value should be determined in a life cycle cost analysis.</span></div><div><span style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><font color="#660000">[SK]: I'm not sure how we can succumb to this that whether the steam boiler can replace a atomizing humidifier or not.</font></span></div><div><span style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><font color="#660000"><br></font></span></div><div><span style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><font color="#660000">Hope this may clarify few things.</font></span></div><div><span style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt">Hope that makes sense.</span></div><div><span style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt">Fred</span></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US"><div class="m_5865714739365814697gmail-m_-7798531354032971155WordSection1">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(102,0,0);text-transform:uppercase">Fred Betz</span></b><b><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)">
</span></b><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)">PhD, LEED® AP BD+C<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif"> Sharad Kumar via Equest-users [mailto:<a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.one<wbr>building.org</a>]
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<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, January 28, 2017 3:10 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> equest-users <<a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuildin<wbr>g.org</a>>; equest-users-request <<a href="mailto:equest-users-request@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-request@lists.on<wbr>ebuilding.org</a>>; <a href="mailto:bdahal@emegroup.com" target="_blank">bdahal@emegroup.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Humidification Savings for LEED, BREEM<u></u><u></u></span></p><div><div class="m_5865714739365814697gmail-h5">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(7,55,99)">Hi Bikesh,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(7,55,99)">As per me if the arts storage requires humidification then it is climate dependent to have achieve the target of having energy savings.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(7,55,99)">It would depend upon the system and design set-points to show how savings can be achieved.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(7,55,99)">For this one requires to have the set-point slightly below the required cooling set-point. After the water small droplets are atomized it is certain to achieve small amount of energy saving depending upon the
climate and the maximum and minimum humidity required to be maintained.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(7,55,99)">My theory is as per some hypothetical climate zone which is warm and humid or dry.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(7,55,99)">The concept behind the energy savings can be the latent heat of heating of water droplets.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(7,55,99)">.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(7,55,99)">The water droplets will absorb the heat of the air and make it cooler and also the storage system might require high level of humidity.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(7,55,99)">As per me for the exceptional calculation you will have to have the parametric runs with the maximum and minimum humidity to show the exception based calculation on the basis of how the humidity factor is causing
the energy savings to be achieved.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(7,55,99)">Following can be the problems with the target:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(7,55,99)">1.The climate having low temperature all over the year so the purpose is not achieved.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(7,55,99)">2. The climatic condition is highly humid so the de-humidification and humidification will cause exceptional losses.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(7,55,99)">3. To achieve the energy savings you can be required to moderate the maximum and minimum amount of relative humidity the parametric runs.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(7,55,99)">4. If you are going as per LEED or BREEM, the you are required to have the humidity maximum and minimum as per the guideline.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(7,55,99)">Hope this may help.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(7,55,99)">For more support other can have help.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:rgb(102,0,0)">Thanks,</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:rgb(32,18,77)">Sharad.Kumar</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>
From: Bikesh Dahal via Equest-users <<a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuildin<wbr>g.org</a>><br>
To: Chris Jones <<a href="mailto:Christopher.Jones@rwdi.com" target="_blank">Christopher.Jones@rwdi.com</a>>, Arunabha Sau <<a href="mailto:runabha@gmail.com" target="_blank">runabha@gmail.com</a>><br>
Cc: "<a href="mailto:equest-users@onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@onebuilding.<wbr>org</a>" <<a href="mailto:equest-users@onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@onebuilding.org</a>><br>
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2017 20:07:07 +0000<br>
Subject: [Equest-users] Humidification Savings for LEED, BREEM<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif">Has anyone shown savings for atomizing humidifiers for LEED and BREEM Projects? I am working on an arts storage facility
with significant humidification requirements. I would like to claim savings due to the atomizing humidifiers. </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif">I am developing an exceptional calculation to demonstrate the savings. I was wondering if anyone has been able to
claim savings for these either in LEED or BREEM certification?</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif">Thanks a lot.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"franklin gothic medium",sans-serif;color:rgb(3,132,68)">Bikesh Dahal, BEMP</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"franklin gothic medium",sans-serif;color:rgb(3,132,68)">Associate</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
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