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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Thanks Fred, that is very helpful and gives almost a complete picture of boiler efficiency.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">To confirm, regardless of whether the boiler modulates or is single stage, the DOE2 part load HIR curve is valid only down to the specified MIN-RATIO. For values less than
that, it cycles between the consumption determined by the HIR at MIN-RATIO and the Standby consumption. So if Standby consumption is ignored, the MIN-RATIO variable should actually improve the apparent efficiency because it eliminates the low efficiencies
at extremely low PLRs (e.g. from 0 to 5%). Is that your understanding?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I was thinking that Start-up Time, for an actual boiler, would only occur seasonally if the boiler is shut off. That seems to agree with my data in that there is some type
of load every single hour, so the Start-up Time should be negligible. That leaves only the “Standby Time” variable as additional consumption during cycling. I am using the default value of 0.027 hours (which I understand means 2.7% of full-load consumption),
which is resulting in a 1-2% drop in annual efficiency when compared to only using the PLR HIR curve. Does that seem reasonable?
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Porter, Frederick NOR [mailto:fporter@noresco.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 10, 2017 11:36 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Brad Painting <Bpainting@fstrategies.com>; Erik Kolderup <erik@kolderupconsulting.com><br>
<b>Cc:</b> equest-users@onebuilding.org; bldg-sim@lists. onebuilding. org (bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org) <bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] Boiler Curves in Library<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">First,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">THANK YOU Erik for pointing out that study. I haven’t had time to look at it but it’s something that could be useful.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Brad,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">You are spot on with your comment. Despite its name, I currently consider the “MIN-RATIO” for the DOE2/eQ boiler models to really be the minimum PLR value at
which the HIR f(PLR) curve is valid, and simulated hourly efficiency is held steady below that value (w/some adjustments if using DOE-2.2). If “MIN-RATIO” was part of a mechanistic model of a boiler (instead of a curve fit model), it would certainly be set
to 100% for a single stage boiler. Also note the eQUEST/DOE-2.2 standard boiler representation includes “Start-up Time” and “Standby Time” which affect hourly efficiency below the “MIN-RATIO” and attempt to account for losses and mass of the boiler when in
cycling mode. See the Misc tab in the Boiler forms.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">The “default” eQ curve, also cited in T24 ACM/COMNET, results in extremely low hourly efficiencies below 20% part load. The default curve for EnergyPlus (cited
in the follow-on PNNL guide) uses a different representation Efficiency f(PLR) instead of HIR f(PLR) and it results in less degradation at very low loads. T24 ACM/COMNET/PNNL cites a 25% “default” for the baseline input for MIN-RATIO, but it’s not clear exactly
why. In my limited experience with older, atmospheric commercial boilers, most stage 33%, 66%, 100% (small burner, large burner, both burners).
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Note that real, in-place boiler efficiency at low loads will depend on a great number of factors, including the boiler water temperature (which is not considered
in these representations) and whether the water is pumped through the boiler continuously or only when the boiler cycles on. FORTUNATELY, all the nasty “traditional” standby losses are minimized, but not eliminated, in decent modern lightweight forced-draft
boiler and HW system design. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">In the chart below, note the non-linear horizontal axis scale, for clarity of comparison below 30% PLR.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><img width="646" height="469" style="width:6.725in;height:4.8833in" id="_x0000_i1030" src="cid:image001.png@01D26B5F.A2ECF8B0" alt="cid:image001.png@01D26B24.EA04E630"></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Fred<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> Equest-users [</span><a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</span></a><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Brad Painting via Equest-users<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 10, 2017 6:47 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Erik Kolderup; equest-users<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [External] Re: [Equest-users] Boiler Curves in Library<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Thanks for the feedback everyone. I am comparing some of the information in the PG&E study with the algorithms described in the DOE2 Engineer’s manual. I am confused about
how the MIN-RATIO variable is used. It seems like the engineer’s manual states that the equipment only cycles on/off when the load drops below MIN-RATIO, but it also states that the part load performance curves account for cycling (pg. v.10):<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><img border="0" width="825" height="280" style="width:8.5916in;height:2.9166in" id="Picture_x0020_2" src="cid:image002.jpg@01D26B5F.A2ECF8B0" alt="cid:image002.jpg@01D26B24.EA04E630"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">For a single stage boiler then, what is the MIN-RATIO doing if all of the part load performance is already attributed to cycling?
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">The graph of “Unit 1” performance in the PG&E study (pg. 40) closely matches the performance curve from the Atmospheric-Blr-HIR-fPLR curve in the library. “Unit 1” is a single
stage boiler, so all part load performance would occur from cycling. What would the best curve be to simulate the part load performance of a modulating non-condensing boiler?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><img border="0" width="538" height="430" style="width:5.6083in;height:4.4833in" id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image003.jpg@01D26B5F.A2ECF8B0" alt="cid:image003.jpg@01D26B24.EA04E630"></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
</span><a href="mailto:erik.kolderup@gmail.com"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">erik.kolderup@gmail.com</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> [</span><a href="mailto:erik.kolderup@gmail.com"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">mailto:erik.kolderup@gmail.com</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Erik Kolderup<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 05, 2017 1:15 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Brad Painting <</span><a href="mailto:Bpainting@fstrategies.com"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Bpainting@fstrategies.com</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">>; equest-users <</span><a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Boiler Curves in Library<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Doesn't directly answer your question, but this report by Taylor Engineering and PG&E discusses the DOE2.2 boiler curves and compares to measured boiler performance: <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.etcc-2Dca.com_sites_default_files_OLD_images_boiler-5Fresearch-5Fproject-5F-2D-5Fats-2Dte-5Ffinal-5Freport-5Fpcb-5F05092012.pdf&d=DQMGaQ&c=ilBQI1lupc9Y65XwNblLtw&r=3xdcdPfNRiIRbdcNOFLTvgBFEa2F6BAz_UMLqgqXn6k&m=UZ8deueZA0b51VLmk00yNncBZ-aefru2s-rOQKkp1UU&s=wnuekf1cBg-bgzfskKaOe8iPhoVmvvG83KG-J0vJYnY&e=">http://www.etcc-ca.com/sites/default/files/OLD/images/boiler_research_project_-_ats-te_final_report_pcb_05092012.pdf</a>. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">-Erik<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Erik Kolderup, PE, LEED AP</b><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="mailto:erik@kolderupconsulting.com" target="_blank">erik@kolderupconsulting.com</a><span style="color:#999999"> | 415.531.5198 | </span><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.kolderupconsulting.com&d=DQMGaQ&c=ilBQI1lupc9Y65XwNblLtw&r=3xdcdPfNRiIRbdcNOFLTvgBFEa2F6BAz_UMLqgqXn6k&m=UZ8deueZA0b51VLmk00yNncBZ-aefru2s-rOQKkp1UU&s=EmNCvJaNXpCeTk8_Y4mQCDuBvlH4Dw3fhq3qO7VOnfY&e=" target="_blank">www.kolderupconsulting.com</a><span style="color:#999999"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 9:39 AM, Bishop, Bill via Equest-users <<a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">Hi Brad,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">I don’t know how the default boiler curves were developed, but…</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">It is easy enough to create custom curves based on manufacturer performance data, which is available for many boiler models.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">There are other inputs that affect simulated fuel consumption in eQUEST besides the boiler HIR-FPLR curve and full-load HIR, including MIN-RATIO and
STANDBY-TIME. If the boiler part-load ratio is below the MIN-RATIO, there are cycling losses based on the STANDBY-TIME. The MIN-RATIO is usually known based on the boiler model but I don’t think I’ve seen published numbers on cycling losses sufficient to calculate
STANDBY-TIME. But I have adjusted the defaults when calibrating a model to known fuel consumption.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">The ASHRAE Handbook has some reference material. S32.6 is on boiler efficiency and includes an efficiency curve for a modulating boiler, showing efficiency
improving slightly at part loads (instead of degrading) “from the increase in the ratio of heat exchanger surface area to heat input as the firing rate is reduced”. F19.12 Boiler Model provides some fundamental research and lists references if you want to
dig into it further.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">~Bill</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Medium",sans-serif;color:black">William Bishop, PE, BEMP, BEAP, CEM, LEED AP
</span></b><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Medium",sans-serif;color:#006600">|</span></b><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Medium",sans-serif;color:black"> Pathfinder Engineers & Architects LLP</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">134 South Fitzhugh Street</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#1F497D">
</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Rochester, NY 14608</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<b><i><span style="font-size:9.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#002060">T:
</span></i></b><a href="tel:(585)%20698-1956" target="_blank"><b><i><span style="font-size:9.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">(585) 698-1956</span></i></b></a><b><i><span style="color:#002060">
</span></i></b><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">F:
</span><a href="tel:(585)%20325-6005" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">(585) 325-6005</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<a href="mailto:wbishop@pathfinder-ea.com" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">bbishop@pathfinder-ea.com</span></a><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">
</span><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.pathfinder-2Dea.com_&d=DQMGaQ&c=ilBQI1lupc9Y65XwNblLtw&r=3xdcdPfNRiIRbdcNOFLTvgBFEa2F6BAz_UMLqgqXn6k&m=UZ8deueZA0b51VLmk00yNncBZ-aefru2s-rOQKkp1UU&s=m-HaWlpZvW4KBBvCb-p7ge8zxHKJzhCV2FE3JwrwElc&e=" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">www.pathfinder-ea.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="color:#1F497D"><img border="0" width="34" height="32" style="width:.3583in;height:.3333in" id="m_-8512257752500472266Picture_x0020_5" src="cid:image008.png@01D26B5F.A2ECF8B0" alt="http://png-5.findicons.com/files/icons/977/rrze/720/globe.png"></span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;line-height:105%;color:#00B0F0">Carbon
Fee and Dividend - simple, effective, and market-based.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b>From:</b> Equest-users [mailto:<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Brad Painting via Equest-users<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 05, 2017 9:02 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] Boiler Curves in Library<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Can someone direct me to where I can find an explanation of how the part-load boiler curves were developed? I can find the formula coefficients for the heat-input ratio in the BDLLIB.dat
file and an explanation of how to apply them in the DOE2 Engineer’s Manual. But how were the formulas and coefficients developed? Are they based on some study results described somewhere in the documentation? I am seeing very little part-load degradation in
performance using the forced draft curve and I was wondering why. Thanks. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Brad Painting<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Facility Strategies Group, LLC<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">1012 Market Street, Suite 307<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Fort Mill, SC 29708<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Phone:
<a href="tel:(803)%20493-9706" target="_blank">(803) 493-9706</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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