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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">John,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">It would be worth checking in the tables in Appendix G – however, there used to be the following wording at the bottom of the baseline
performance column… <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Existing Buildings. For existing
<i>building envelopes, </i>the <i>baseline building<o:p></o:p></i></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt">design
</span></i><span style="font-size:11.0pt">shall reflect existing conditions prior to any revisions that are part of<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">the scope of work being evaluated.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">This one is from ASHRAE 90.1 (2007) and I’m not sure if it is in the 2010 version but it would be worth a look.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Though modeling 1855 concrete side walls would be a different issue, entirely! LOL.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Good luck, sir!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Chris Baker<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">CCI Alliance of Companies<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Fort Wainwright, AK<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Equest-users [mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>John Aulbach via Equest-users<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 01, 2016 3:32 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nicholas.Caton@schneider-electric.com; nathanm@rushingco.com<br>
<b>Cc:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Outside wall to outside wall<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black">Thanks, Nick. I have an even more interesting scenario. This building was built originally in 1855 (yes, even before me and 19 years after the Battle
of the Alamo)). The owners will leave the concrete 1855 side walls (I think I will let them be totally shaded outside walls), gut the rest of the building, and rebuild a 5 story single residence (no, not one of the Trump kids).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black">SO..for the City of New York 2011 Energy Code (2014 doesn't take place until October, 2016), we use ASHRAE 90.1-2010. Good old Appendix G (as I interpret
it) say that, for either New or Alterations, the Base model is Steel Frame. <b>ALL of it.</b> So I don't apply the 1855 walls (with some added insulation) until the Proposed Run (Thank GOD I don't have to spin the building like LEED).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black">Does this base building approach seem correct to you?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black">Don't forget. I am originally a Chicago boy.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black">John<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">On Thursday, September 1, 2016 3:19 PM, "<a href="mailto:Nicholas.Caton@schneider-electric.com">Nicholas.Caton@schneider-electric.com</a>"
<<a href="mailto:Nicholas.Caton@schneider-electric.com">Nicholas.Caton@schneider-electric.com</a>> wrote:</span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">John, looks like this didn’t leave my outbox… sorry! Give me time to refine my response:</span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">How I’d react would depend on my motives/goals.</span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Ideally, I’d like to find & assert both neighbors are conditioned to similar temperatures and therefore declare no substantive heat
transfer: adiabatic surfaces with thermal mass to effect hourly heat storage/transfer lag. This is probably accurate enough (in-aggregate) for many cases, short of exposed walls where one building is taller than another.</span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Conservatively – Nathan’s suggestion is the ticket however. If there’s going to be appreciable heat transfer, you’re now in a position
to decide where to draw a line in the sand: what’s your worst-case? This may be the more appropriate response if you’re doing simulation to aid/inform equipment sizing or if you know of planned demolition/renovations in the neighboring spaces. I can say
short of FEMA shelters and the like (this is tornado country…), I don’t normally make the destruction of an attached portion of my buildings a part of my design calculations or energy simulations, but you might have some good reasons to pull that possibility
into the picture.</span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Applying the likes of 90.1 conditioned envelope definitions notably gets a little trickier if you have an enclosed or partially enclosed
gap between the buildings. If you’re heading down a 90.1/LEED based simulation path or something similar for compliance, look hard for shared wall/space construction details on that front to understand what exactly lies beyond your “envelope.”</span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Finally, I notice you mentioned an disquieting location: New York City (or NEW YORK CITY?!? as we say in the midwest). I want to say
there was a mailing list discussion on this exact issue in relation to NY’s energy standards some time back either in equest-users or bldg-sim… but on cursory searching I’m having trouble finding it… suggest digging the archives further!</span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">~Nick</span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Nick Caton, P.E.</span></b><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt"> Senior Energy Engineer<br>
Energy and Sustainability Services<br>
Schneider Electric</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt">D 913.564.6361 <br>
M 785.410.3317 <br>
E </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><a href="mailto:nicholas.caton@schneider-electric.com" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:8.0pt">nicholas.caton@schneider-electric.com</span></a></span><span style="font-size:8.0pt"><br>
F 913.564.6380</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" align="right" style="text-align:right"><span style="font-size:8.0pt">15200 Santa Fe Trail Drive<br>
Suite 204<br>
Lenexa, KS 66219<br>
United States</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"> Equest-users [<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>John Aulbach via Equest-users<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 01, 2016 4:09 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nathan Miller<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Outside wall to outside wall</span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Thank you all. I just had to shake the trees to jog my DOE-2.1 memory.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">A fully shaded outdoor wall is probably the best way, so thank you all.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">John<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">On Thursday, September 1, 2016 1:17 PM, Nathan Miller <<a href="mailto:nathanm@rushingco.com" target="_blank">nathanm@rushingco.com</a>>
wrote:</span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Tough call, but I’d probably be conservative and err on the side of making assumptions that result in MORE energy consumption in my
modeling (unless there is some benchmarking you can compare to). </span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">That means I’d probably assume the walls are exterior and fully shaded. There is a pretty good chance there is at least small dead-air-space
between the buildings (even if it is only a few inches), plus you have no control over what is happening on the other side of the wall… maybe the neighboring building is minimally conditioned, or becomes abandoned.
</span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Nathan Miller, PE, LEED AP BD+C –
</span></b><i><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Mechanical Engineer/Senior Energy Analyst</span></i><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:115%;background:white"><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">RUSHING</span></b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">
| <b>D</b> 206-788-4577 | <b>O</b> 206-285-7100 | <b>C</b> 207-650-3942</span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:115%;background:white"><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><a href="http://www.rushingco.com/" target="_blank"><span style="color:#6F1200">www.rushingco.com</span></a></span></b><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"> Equest-users [<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>John Aulbach via Equest-users<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, August 31, 2016 5:42 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> via Equest-users <<a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] Outside wall to outside wall</span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Hi Gang:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Food (and query) for thought.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">I am doing a remodel of a New York Building that is essentially a tenement (?). Building squished between other buildings. Side walls essentially lay
against next building.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Inside wall? Outside wall with no solar?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">How would you model this?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">John R. Aulbach, PE<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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