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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>John, looks like this didn’t leave my outbox… sorry! Give me time to refine my response:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>How I’d react would depend on my motives/goals.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Ideally, I’d like to find & assert both neighbors are conditioned to similar temperatures and therefore declare no substantive heat transfer: adiabatic surfaces with thermal mass to effect hourly heat storage/transfer lag. This is probably accurate enough (in-aggregate) for many cases, short of exposed walls where one building is taller than another.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Conservatively – Nathan’s suggestion is the ticket however. If there’s going to be appreciable heat transfer, you’re now in a position to decide where to draw a line in the sand: what’s your worst-case? This may be the more appropriate response if you’re doing simulation to aid/inform equipment sizing or if you know of planned demolition/renovations in the neighboring spaces. I can say short of FEMA shelters and the like (this is tornado country…), I don’t normally make the destruction of an attached portion of my buildings a part of my design calculations or energy simulations, but you might have some good reasons to pull that possibility into the picture.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Applying the likes of 90.1 conditioned envelope definitions notably gets a little trickier if you have an enclosed or partially enclosed gap between the buildings. If you’re heading down a 90.1/LEED based simulation path or something similar for compliance, look hard for shared wall/space construction details on that front to understand what exactly lies beyond your “envelope.”<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Finally, I notice you mentioned an disquieting location: New York City (or NEW YORK CITY?!? as we say in the midwest). I want to say there was a mailing list discussion on this exact issue in relation to NY’s energy standards some time back either in equest-users or bldg-sim… but on cursory searching I’m having trouble finding it… suggest digging the archives further!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>~Nick<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#3A7A46'><img width=722 height=9 id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image001.png@01D2046F.62C6C380"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#3A7A46'>Nick Caton, P.E.</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#3A7A46'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 width=724 style='width:543.0pt;border-collapse:collapse'><tr><td width=230 valign=top style='width:172.3pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#626469'> Senior Energy Engineer</span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><br></span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#626469'> Energy and Sustainability Services</span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><br></span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#626469'> Schneider Electric</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p></td><td width=291 valign=top style='width:218.3pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#57B069'>D </span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#626469'>913.564.6361 </span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><br></span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#57B069'>M </span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#626469'>785.410.3317 </span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><br></span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#57B069'>E </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><a href="mailto:nicholas.caton@schneider-electric.com"><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#626469'>nicholas.caton@schneider-electric.com</span></a></span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><br></span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#57B069'>F </span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#626469'>913.564.6380</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p></td><td width=203 valign=top style='width:152.4pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal align=right style='text-align:right'><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#626469'>15200 Santa Fe Trail Drive<br>Suite 204<br>Lenexa, KS 66219<br>United States</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr><tr style='height:4.0pt'><td width=724 colspan=3 valign=top style='width:543.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in;height:4.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-line-height-alt:4.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#3A7A46'><img border=0 width=722 height=49 id="Picture_x0020_3" src="cid:image002.png@01D2046F.62C6C380" alt="cid:image001.png@01D189AB.58634A10"></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#3A7A46'><o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr></table><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Equest-users [mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>John Aulbach via Equest-users<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 01, 2016 4:09 PM<br><b>To:</b> Nathan Miller<br><b>Cc:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Outside wall to outside wall<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'>Thank you all. I just had to shake the trees to jog my DOE-2.1 memory.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472764018125_3740"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472764018125_3740"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'>A fully shaded outdoor wall is probably the best way, so thank you all.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472764018125_3740"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472764018125_3740"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'>John<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>On Thursday, September 1, 2016 1:17 PM, Nathan Miller <<a href="mailto:nathanm@rushingco.com">nathanm@rushingco.com</a>> wrote:</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div id=yiv7061350929><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Tough call, but I’d probably be conservative and err on the side of making assumptions that result in MORE energy consumption in my modeling (unless there is some benchmarking you can compare to). </span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>That means I’d probably assume the walls are exterior and fully shaded. There is a pretty good chance there is at least small dead-air-space between the buildings (even if it is only a few inches), plus you have no control over what is happening on the other side of the wall… maybe the neighboring building is minimally conditioned, or becomes abandoned. </span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div style='margin-top:1.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> </span></b><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div style='margin-bottom:4.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Nathan Miller, PE, LEED AP BD+C – </span></b><i><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Mechanical Engineer/Senior Energy Analyst</span></i><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div style='margin-top:3.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:115%;background:white'><b><span style='font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>RUSHING</span></b><span style='font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> | <b>D</b> 206-788-4577 | <b>O</b> 206-285-7100 | <b>C</b> 207-650-3942</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:115%;background:white'><b><span style='font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><a href="http://www.rushingco.com/" target="_blank"><span style='color:#6F1200'>www.rushingco.com</span></a></span></b><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id=yiv7061350929yqt09432><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> Equest-users [<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>John Aulbach via Equest-users<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, August 31, 2016 5:42 PM<br><b>To:</b> via Equest-users <<a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] Outside wall to outside wall</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div id="yiv7061350929yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472679516589_4504"><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Hi Gang:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div id="yiv7061350929yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472679516589_4504"><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div id="yiv7061350929yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472679516589_4504"><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Food (and query) for thought.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div id="yiv7061350929yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472679516589_4504"><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div id="yiv7061350929yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472679516589_4504"><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>I am doing a remodel of a New York Building that is essentially a tenement (?). Building squished between other buildings. Side walls essentially lay against next building.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div id="yiv7061350929yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472679516589_4504"><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div id="yiv7061350929yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472679516589_4504"><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Inside wall? Outside wall with no solar?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div id="yiv7061350929yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472679516589_4504"><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div id="yiv7061350929yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472679516589_4504"><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>How would you model this?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div id="yiv7061350929yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472679516589_4504"><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div id="yiv7061350929yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1472679516589_4504"><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>John R. Aulbach, PE<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><br>______________________________________________________________________<br>This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.<br>______________________________________________________________________<o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>