<div dir="ltr">Thanks all. Ideas were helpful. <div>Now trying to figure out how much energy energy can be saved if a pool cover is installed. It is possible to model this in equest?.</div><div><br></div><div>Rehana.</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 8:18 PM, Jayant Patil <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jppatil@gmail.com" target="_blank">jppatil@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">I use the methodology described in the below link. It is pretty much close to the ASHARE method and EPA's energy star performance rating technical document.<div><br></div><div><br></div><div><a href="http://www.rlmartin.com/rspec/whatis/studies_outdoor_inactive.htm" target="_blank">http://www.rlmartin.com/rspec/whatis/studies_outdoor_inactive.htm</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>Jay</div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div><div class="h5"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 9:14 AM, Elizabeth Gillmor <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:elizabeth@energetics-eng.com" target="_blank">elizabeth@energetics-eng.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">I use bin calcs for this, though I am interested to hear if others have a better way. Total load = losses from evaporation + radiation + convection. Use 8760 data from your weather file to get OA DB, humidity, solar radiation, wind speed etc. Useful paper with equations here:<div><a href="http://www.mmshah.org/publications/ASHRAE%202014%20Evaporation%20paper.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.mmshah.org/publications/ASHRAE%202014%20Evaporation%20paper.pdf</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>From my bin calcs I get a total annual load in Mbtu/year, then convert that to Mbtu/hr for the days that the pool is open (which averages the load across its operating period), and model that as a process load on a boiler loop with an on/off schedule ("on" during the open season). It's a relatively OK estimate for a fuel rate that doesn't have a demand charge, but might not be the best way for your electric pool heater if you have a demand charge on your rate.</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><b>Elizabeth Gillmor <font size="1">PE, BEMP, LC, LEED AP</font></b><div><br></div><div><span style="font-size:large;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><b><font color="#38761d" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">e n e r g e t i c s </font></b></span><b><font color="#38761d" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">consulting engineers, llc</font></b></div><div><font size="2" style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" color="#666666"><a href="http://energetics-eng.com" target="_blank">energetics-eng.com</a> |</font><span style="color:rgb(102,102,102);font-size:small"> <a href="tel:303.619.0091" value="+13036190091" target="_blank">303.619.0091</a></span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div>On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 9:42 AM, Christian Kaltreider <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ckaltreider@sudassociates.com" target="_blank">ckaltreider@sudassociates.com</a>></span> wrote:<br></div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Rehana,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Estimating the energy consumption of a pool heater can be very tricky. The dominant mode of heat loss is generally evaporation. Some major influences include activity level of people using the pool (splashing/stirring increases evaporation), wind speeds, and the use of a pool cover. The US DOE has some material on the subject: <a href="http://energy.gov/energysaver/gas-swimming-pool-heaters" target="_blank">http://energy.gov/energysaver/gas-swimming-pool-heaters</a> There is a table on this page which I have used to back calculate and extrapolate heating requirements for a specific project as a sanity check. <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Also, ASHRAE HVAC Applications 2015 addresses pool heat loss starting on page 5.6. The discussion is helpful and provides sound calculation methods, but they are more easily applied to indoor pools than outdoor pools.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">That’s all I have at the moment; hopefully you can find some additional resources. <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Good luck,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Christian<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Equest-users [mailto:<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Sunayana Jain<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, March 28, 2016 8:23 AM<br><b>To:</b> Rehana Jiffrey; <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Outdoor swimming pool and heater<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Rehana,</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">You can model pool heater load on electric meter (see image below) with winter months schedule:</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><img border="0" width="557" height="416" src="cid:image001.jpg@01D188E5.2029BE70"><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Thanks,</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#17109c">Sunayana Jain CEM, LEED AP BD+C</span></b><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Equest-users [mailto:<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Rehana Jiffrey<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, March 26, 2016 11:21 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] Outdoor swimming pool and heater</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p>Dear All,<u></u><u></u></p><p>I'm trying to model an outdoor swimming pool located at the roof top of a residential building. Pool heater (45Kw) operates from December to March (4 months). <u></u><u></u></p><p>I was wondering if anyone could help me how to model this scenario, and where to input these consumption values. <u></u><u></u></p><p>FYI, this is my first time modeling an outdoor pool and pool heater.<u></u><u></u></p><p>Thank you,<u></u><u></u></p><p>Rehana.<u></u><u></u></p></div></div><br></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>
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