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<body class='hmmessage'><div dir='ltr'><div>Thank you so much, Joe, Nick, Keith, Sharad and Julien!</div><div>Previously, I modeled this as increased infiltration. But your suggestions give me more hint, I need to modify the model for accuracy.</div><div><br></div><div>Best regards,</div><div><br></div><div>Zarah<br><div><hr id="stopSpelling">To: equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>From: yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com<br>Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2016 16:50:35 -0800<br>Subject: Re: [Equest-users] *****SPAM***** Re: Repost - how to simulate a revolving door<br><br>
It seems to me there are two distinctly different sources of
"infiltration" through a revolving door - <br>
(1) leakage through the cracks and imperfect seals<br>
(2) bulk air exchange when the door is used and acts like a piston
bringing in Pi*(r2/4)*ht volume of outdoor air and exhausting the
same of indoor air. <br>
<br>
The relative importance of the 2 depends entirely on how much the
revolving door is being used. <br>
It might be interesting to do some back-of-the-envelope calculations
to see. <br>
<br>
Joe
<pre class="ecxmoz-signature">Joe Huang
White Box Technologies, Inc.
346 Rheem Blvd., Suite 205A
Moraga CA 94556
<a class="ecxmoz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com">yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com</a>
<a class="ecxmoz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com" target="_blank">http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com</a> for simulation-ready weather data
(o) (925)388-0265
(c) (510)928-2683
"building energy simulations at your fingertips"
</pre>
<div class="ecxmoz-cite-prefix">On 2/25/2016 2:06 PM, Keith Swartz
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:BY2PR12MB0103A55B152C4B2C0735CED8AEA60@BY2PR12MB0103.namprd12.prod.outlook.com">
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<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;">To
estimate airflow through an opening due to wind, see the
2013 ASHRAE Handbook ¨C Fundamentals, page 16.13, equation
37. For stack effect use equation 38. For no wind and no
stack effect see 2014 ASHRAE Handbook ¨C Refrigeration, page
24.5. The wind and stack effect equations are in cfm while
the one from the refrigeration handbook is heat load, but it
might still be helpful for you.</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;">Remember
that the wind is not always blowing directly toward the
door¡unless the building swings on a big weather vane so
that the door always points into the wind! The weather
file has wind direction in addition to the speed.</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;"> </span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black;">Keith
Swartz, PE
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:gray;">|
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black;">Senior
Energy Engineer</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="line-height:110%;"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;line-height:110%;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black;">Seventhwave</span></b><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;line-height:110%;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:gray;"></span></b></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="line-height:110%;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;line-height:110%;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black;">608.210.7123
seventhwave.org</span></p>
</div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;"> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;">
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;">
<a class="ecxmoz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Nicholas.Caton@schneider-electric.com">Nicholas.Caton@schneider-electric.com</a>
[<a class="ecxmoz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:Nicholas.Caton@schneider-electric.com">mailto:Nicholas.Caton@schneider-electric.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 25, 2016 11:18 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="ecxmoz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:sharadcapricious@gmail.com">sharadcapricious@gmail.com</a>;
<a class="ecxmoz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Repost - how to
simulate a revolving door</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;">Apologies
for not contributing sooner(I¡¯ve been in a busy week
myself), but I notice a few critical points may have been
missed in the discussion so far:</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D;"><span style="">¡¤<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman";">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;">The
numbers 90.1 cites for window (0.4 cfm/ft2 ) and door (1.0
cfm/ft2) leakage are at NFRC-400 testing conditions (75
pascals). These represent
<u>maximum</u> permissible infiltration in a closed state
with head-on windspeed equivalent to 75 Pa. </span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D;"><span style="">¡¤<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman";">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;">Open
windows & swinging doors will infiltrate much more than
closed assemblies. The real-world problem of airflow
through free openings is rather complicated depending upon
many variables (including relative temperatures, windspeed
direction vs. orientation, building pressurization, stack
effects, whether and where other nearby openings are
occurring¡).
</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D;"><span style="">¡¤<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman";">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;">Conservatively
& for a back of envelope / sanity check with free
openings, I might consider CFM = hourly windspeed(fpm) x
free area(ft2) on an hourly basis.</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D;"><span style="">¡¤<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman";">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;">Revolving
doors by design are never ¡°open¡± in the above sense ¨C see
this image
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolving_door" target="_blank">from
Wikipedia</a> if that isn¡¯t immediately clear:</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoListParagraph"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;"><img id="ecx_x0000_i1025" src="cid:part2.00090504.00060603@whiteboxtechnologies.com" alt="https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTYX--sNe7YSiL32dNddNEwA70qOJEVkJ-9g2KzLDThtNopxEUvSA" border="0" height="167" width="302"></span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;">So
the whole picture is perhaps a bit more complicated than you
might have initially thought, but I believe you will find
eQuest is generally well-equipped to tackle all of the
above!</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D;"><span style="">¡¤<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman";">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;">Your
weather file has windspeed data that can be used each hour
for calculations</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D;"><span style="">¡¤<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman";">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;">Looking
to your SPACE inputs for infiltration, you can read up on
the variety of options for how sophisticated you want to
make your simulation. Most options do account for hourly
windspeed. In all cases, you can define an INF-SCHEDULE to
account for behavior like swinging doors & windows
opening.
</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D;"><span style="">¡¤<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman";">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;">If
this is all flying a little too high in complexity for your
purposes/timeframe, I suggest leveraging the wizards to
observe what infiltration schedules and inputs are generated
using a few dummy ¡®shell¡¯ models. Note ¡°perimeter¡± vs.
¡°core¡± infiltration schedules are commonly generated side by
side and will be named accordingly.
</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D;"><span style="">¡¤<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman";">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;">I¡¯d
personally prefer leveraging a custom hourly report for this
sort of assessment. Starting variables to spot check my
expectations would include</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D;"><span style="">o<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman";">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;">SPACE
infiltration (cfm) as calculated,</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D;"><span style="">o<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman";">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;">local
windspeed</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D;"><span style="">o<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman";">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;">ZONE
temperature</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D;"><span style="">o<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman";">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;">ZONE
tstat setpoint
</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoListParagraph" style=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;"> </span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;">Other
thoughts:</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D;"><span style="">¡¤<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman";">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;">Ultimately
you are going to be making a ¡°Yes/No¡± decision based on how
the temperatures in this space float. Step back before
getting too far into the study and make some decisions
regarding what would be subjectively ¡°acceptable¡± comfort
criteria considering anticipated atrium/staircase usage,
occupancy profile, & expectations specific to your
regional climate/locale.</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D;"><span style="">¡¤<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman";">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;">High-level
assessment idea, if you don¡¯t want to assess this ¡°manually¡±
via hourly outputs: You could perhaps most simply create a
pair of zone temp schedules reflective of maximum comfort
thresholds, then leverage simulation unmet hours inform how
often & when you cross those lines.</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D;"><span style="">¡¤<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman";">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;">At
only 2 stories effects probably won¡¯t be extreme, but keep
in the back of your mind that eQuest/doe2 assumes ¡°perfect
thermal mixing¡± within a zone hour by hour. If your space
does not have fans or other means of consistent circulation,
there¡¯s potential for buoyancy/stack effects in the real
world to result in different conditions on the 1<sup>st</sup>
vs. 2<sup>nd</sup> level.</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;"> </span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;">Probably
more than you¡¯re looking for¡ sorry for the wall of text!</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;"> </span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;">~Nick</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;"> </span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#3A7A46;">---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#3A7A46;">Nick
Caton, P.E.</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#3A7A46;"></span></p>
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<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;">
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;">
Equest-users [<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Sharad Kumar<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 25, 2016 3:04 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> equest-users<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Repost - how to
simulate a revolving door</span></p>
</div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="color:blue;">Hi Zarah,</span></p>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="color:blue;">As per
my understanding you need to know the cooling load
requirement of any space for any time.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="color:blue;">For this one
can do peak load calculations and try to find out the
cooling load requirement of any space at desired time.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="color:blue;">I have also
referred ASHARE 90.1 and have found that the swinging
door has 1 cfm / sq. ft. and windows have 0.40 cfm / sq
.ft as infiltration.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="color:blue;">............................................................................................................</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="color:blue;">eQUEST have
the option to input the required infiltration in
Internal load tab and input it in as cfm /sq. ft for the
space.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="color:blue;">The
infiltration being input is the total infiltration in
that space.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="color:blue;">You need to
have proper weather file as per location, have some
cooling system as per project and proper infiltration as
input.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="color:blue;">Then from the
hourly report being derived from the File< Export
File< Hourly result (CSV) and have the finding in
cooling end-use energy.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="color:blue;">This will help
you to find out whether that space at any desired time
needs the cooling or not. Additionally one needs to have
proper schedules.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="color:blue;">The better
software to have these kind of analyses is IES-VE but
eQUEST can also help.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="color:blue;">The design
time is the cooling load having the most peak value of
cooling energy in Hourly report.If the Cooling
requirement is less than 300 hours over the year then
may be you can ignore installing cooling system.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="color:blue;">If it is for
the major part of year then you can choose to have
cooling system. Also have a go on the cooling plant
requirement size.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="color:blue;">Hope this can
be helpful.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="color:blue;">Thanks,</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="color:blue;">Sharad. Kumar.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="color:blue;">Green Horizon
Consulting LLP.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="color:blue;">Gurgaon.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal">2016-02-24 5:17 GMT+01:00
zhouzarah <<a href="mailto:zarahzhou@hotmail.com" target="_blank">zarahzhou@hotmail.com</a>>:</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Microsoft YaHei UI",sans-serif;color:#444444;">Dear eQuesters,</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Microsoft YaHei UI",sans-serif;color:#444444;">Sorry for the
repost! I do need your help about this due to time
limit. If any one can give a hint, I really appreciate
that!</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Microsoft YaHei UI",sans-serif;color:#444444;">My client
requires to do a thermal simulation for a two-story
atrium/staircase to check if the cooling system is
required for it. The atrium has a revolving door, which
revolves once every 30 minutes, and the swing door opens
for 30 minutes every 8 hours for shift change. My
question is how to simulate the revolving door and swing
door in eQuest? I noticed that ASHRAE 90.1-2010
mentioned the infiltration from these two types of doors
is 1.0 cfm/ft2 tested at a pressure of at least 1.57
pounds per square foot (psf), but I do not quite
understand what this means and how to use this number in
my model. If any one has an idea, please give the
comments. Thank you so much!</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Microsoft YaHei UI",sans-serif;color:#444444;">Best regards,</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Microsoft YaHei UI",sans-serif;color:#444444;">Zarah </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal">_______________________________________________</p>
</div>
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<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal">Equest-users mailing list</p>
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