<html><head></head><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1446743833961_5380"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1446743833961_5408">Gentlemen:</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1446743833961_5380"><span><br></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1446743833961_5380"><span>Here is the model. Pick away. I just don't think it makes sense in SoCal vs an air side.</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1446743833961_5380"><span><br></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1446743833961_5380"><span>Please keep the client close to your vest. This building is on the site of the old Gene Autry studios.</span></div> <br><div class="qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div class="yahoo_quoted" style="display: block;"> <div style="font-family: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> On Thursday, November 5, 2015 8:39 AM, "Bishop, Bill" <bbishop@pathfinder-ea.com> wrote:<br> </font> </div> <br><br> <div class="y_msg_container"><div id="yiv5881716729"><style>#yiv5881716729 #yiv5881716729 --
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<div class="yiv5881716729MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">John,</span></div>
<div class="yiv5881716729MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">The energy savings for air handler water-side economizers (WSE) will largely depend on the pumping energy, as you note. These are different than the water-side
economizers that are cooling towers for serving chilled water systems, allowing chiller(s) to turn off.
</span></div>
<div class="yiv5881716729MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">The default coil head is pretty high (20’) so override the default if appropriate to your design.</span></div>
<div class="yiv5881716729MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv5881716729MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"><img id="yiv5881716729_x0000_i1028" width="533" height="293" src="cid:image008.png@01D117BE.9737B2D0"></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"></span></div>
<div class="yiv5881716729MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv5881716729MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">The DOE2.2 help menu description for WSE is in this section:
</span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="">Volume 2: Dictionary</a><span class="yiv5881716729d2hbreadcrumbslinkseparator"> >
</span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="">HVAC Components</a><span class="yiv5881716729d2hbreadcrumbslinkseparator"> >
</span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="">SYSTEM</a><span class="yiv5881716729d2hbreadcrumbslinkseparator"> >
</span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="">Cooling Equipment</a></div>
<div class="yiv5881716729MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">Part of the description mentions operation to supplement (not entirely replace) the cooling coil and/or air-side economizer:</span></div>
<div class="yiv5881716729MsoNormal" style="">The water-side economizer coil is assumed to be downstream of the mixed air plenum, and upstream of the cooling coil. As such, the cooling coil may supplement the operation of the
water-side economizer. The air handler may also have a conventional outdoor-air economizer, in which case the outdoor-air economizer will operate first to meet the supply-air setpoint, then the water-side economizer will supplement the outdoor-air economizer,
and the cooling coil will pick up the remaining load, if any. </div>
<div class="yiv5881716729MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">Regards,</span></div>
<div class="yiv5881716729MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">Bill</span></div>
<div class="yiv5881716729MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv5881716729MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">William Bishop, PE, BEMP, BEAP, CEM, LEED AP
</span></b><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">|</span></b><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> Pathfinder Engineers & Architects LLP</span></b></div>
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<div class="yiv5881716729MsoNormal" style="line-height:105%;"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;line-height:105%;">Senior Energy Engineer</span></b></div>
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<div class="yiv5881716729MsoNormal" style="line-height:105%;"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;line-height:105%;">134 South Fitzhugh Street</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;line-height:105%;">
</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;line-height:105%;">Rochester, NY 14608</span></div>
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<div class="yiv5881716729MsoNormal" style="line-height:105%;"><b><i><span style="font-size:9.0pt;line-height:105%;">T: (585) 698-1956</span></i></b><b><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:105%;">
</span></i></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:105%;"> </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;line-height:105%;">F: (585) 325-6005</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;line-height:105%;"></span></div>
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<div class="yiv5881716729MsoNormal" style="line-height:105%;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:105%;"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:wbishop@pathfinder-ea.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:wbishop@pathfinder-ea.com"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;line-height:105%;">bbishop@pathfinder-ea.com</span></a></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;line-height:105%;">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:105%;"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.pathfinder-ea.com/"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;line-height:105%;">www.pathfinder-ea.com</span></a></span></div>
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<div class="yiv5881716729MsoNormal" style="margin-top:3.0pt;line-height:105%;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:105%;"><img id="yiv5881716729Picture_x0020_5" border="0" width="42" height="40" src="cid:image011.png@01D117BE.9737B2D0" alt="http://png-5.findicons.com/files/icons/977/rrze/720/globe.png"></span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;line-height:105%;">Carbon
Fee and Dividend - simple, effective, and market-based.</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:105%;"></span></div>
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<div class="yiv5881716729yqt9472679651" id="yiv5881716729yqt33026"><div class="yiv5881716729MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> Equest-users [mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Julien Marrec<br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 05, 2015 11:17 AM<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> John Aulbach <jra_sac@yahoo.com><br clear="none">
<b>Cc:</b> Equest-users <equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org><br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Water side economizer</span></div>
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<div class="yiv5881716729MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;">John,</div>
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<div class="yiv5881716729MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;">Never did a waterside economizer for RTUs, but a couple of points I think I remember:</div>
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<div class="yiv5881716729MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;">The waterside economizer in eQuest is all or nothing: if it can satisfy the entire load, then it's on, otherwise it's off. Are you autosizing or hardsizing it?</div>
</div>
<div class="yiv5881716729MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;">It also poses the questions of how you reset the condenser water loop temperature, and how you reset the rooftop supply air temperature during low load condition.</div>
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<div class="yiv5881716729MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;">What are your current settings?</div>
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<div class="yiv5881716729MsoNormal">Julien</div>
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<div class="yiv5881716729MsoNormal">--<br clear="none">
Julien Marrec, EBCP, BPI MFBA<br clear="none">
Energy&Sustainability Engineer<br clear="none">
T: +33 6 95 14 42 13<br clear="none">
<span style="color:black;"><br clear="none">
LinkedIn (en) : <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/julienmarrec">
www.linkedin.com/in/julienmarrec</a><br clear="none">
LinkedIn (fr) : <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/julienmarrec/fr">
www.linkedin.com/in/julienmarrec/fr</a></span></div>
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<div class="yiv5881716729MsoNormal">2015-11-05 15:11 GMT+01:00 John Aulbach <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:jra_sac@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:jra_sac@yahoo.com">jra_sac@yahoo.com</a>>:</div>
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<div class="yiv5881716729MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">Hello all and HALP !!</span></div>
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<div class="yiv5881716729MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style=""> </span></div>
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<div class="yiv5881716729MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">I have an office building in Los Angeles that is looking to go LEED Core and Shell. It has some exterior and back of the house lighting, so the savings
there make sense. But the building has 6 DX 30-50 ton Trane rooftop package units, two on the 1st floor and one for each of the other 4 floors. These are WATER COOLED units.</span></div>
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<div class="yiv5881716729MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style=""> </span></div>
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<div class="yiv5881716729MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">These units have a central outside air stream, and have WATER SIDE ECONOMIZERS.</span></div>
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<div class="yiv5881716729MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style=""> </span></div>
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<div class="yiv5881716729MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">My Base model has an air side economizer (still water cooled condensers). The proposed model removes the air side and replaces it with the water side.</span></div>
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<div class="yiv5881716729MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style=""> </span></div>
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<div class="yiv5881716729MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">The units themselves are EER 14+, whereas the Base units are 10.8 EER.</span></div>
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<div class="yiv5881716729MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style=""> </span></div>
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<div class="yiv5881716729MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">Results show a SLIGHT savings in Space Cooling, which I attribute to the EER improvement MINUS the air side economizer removal (Jan and Dec space cooling
load INCREASES in the Proposed Case).</span></div>
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<div class="yiv5881716729MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style=""> </span></div>
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<div class="yiv5881716729MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">But the pumping energy skyrockets about 50% (remember, no chilled water).</span></div>
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<div class="yiv5881716729MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style=""> </span></div>
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<div class="yiv5881716729MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">I am unsure if I am running the water side correctly. There is only the one line of data at ever SYSTEM level.</span></div>
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<div class="yiv5881716729MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style=""> </span></div>
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<div class="yiv5881716729MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">Help??</span></div>
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<div class="yiv5881716729MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style=""> </span></div>
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<div class="yiv5881716729MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">John R. Aulbach</span></div>
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<div class="yiv5881716729MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">Aging engineer (by the minute)</span></div>
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