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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Good morning, all!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>A little insight on this issue. There is an ASHRAE Interpretation ASHRAE/IES IC 90.1-2007-14 that indicates the chilled water pump power allowance is to be split between the primary and secondary pumps in the Baseline model. I am unsure of the date the interpretation was issued, but if using Appendix G modeling protocol for any other purpose other than LEED projects, this guidance should be followed from the issue date on. This ASHRAE Interpretation was implemented for LEED projects by LEED Interpretation 10299 which was issued on 01/01/2014 and all projects registered after that date must follow this protocol as described in the interpretation.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Hope this helps.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#3D9959'>Cam Fitzgerald<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#3D9959'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#3D9959'>Energy Opportunities/a 7group company<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Equest-users [mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Rathna Shree<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, October 28, 2015 1:39 AM<br><b>To:</b> David Eldridge; Bosch, Crina; Bishop, Bill; Sambhav Tiwari<br><b>Cc:</b> Equest Users Mailing List<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Air cooled chillers versus water cooled chillers<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1446010435546_3304"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Sorry, i meant primary and secondary pumps. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1446010435546_3305"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Now the main issue is my proposed case with variable primary and air cooled chillers are performing equal or better than the baseline case. Is this possible?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>On Wednesday, 28 October 2015 2:42 AM, David Eldridge <<a href="mailto:DEldridge@grummanbutkus.com">DEldridge@grummanbutkus.com</a>> wrote:</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div id=yiv8861323247><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>I didn’t follow this thread all of the way earlier, but the idea might be that in the baseline case the 22 W/gpm is split between the primary and secondary pumps in some manner.</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>The proposed case has the design values to go from, and may be primary only or primary secondary – whatever the proposed motor power and configurations is, use that.</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>David</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><u><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> </span></u><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>David S. Eldridge, Jr., P.E., LEED AP BD+C, BEMP, BEAP, HBDP</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Grumman/Butkus Associates</span></b><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><u><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> </span></u><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id=yiv8861323247yqt15064><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> Equest-users [<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Bosch, Crina<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 27, 2015 3:32 PM<br><b>To:</b> Rathna Shree <<a href="mailto:rathnashreep@yahoo.in">rathnashreep@yahoo.in</a>>; Bishop, Bill <<a href="mailto:bbishop@pathfinder-ea.com">bbishop@pathfinder-ea.com</a>>; Sambhav Tiwari <<a href="mailto:tiwari.sambhav@gmail.com">tiwari.sambhav@gmail.com</a>><br><b>Cc:</b> Equest Users Mailing List <<a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Air cooled chillers versus water cooled chillers</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Rathnashree, </span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>I didn’t understand your statement that “22W/gpm has to be split between base and proposed case based on a ASHRAE interpretation.”</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>As Bill mentioned below, for the Baseline Model The CHW pump power must be calculated as 22 W/gpm. Usually , you check in PV-A report your autosized gpm and that way you can calculate you pump power and see if it’s input correct. </span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>The Proposed Model Pump power must be input as scheduled per design which is totally different than ASHRAE requirement. </span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Hope this may help, </span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Crina. </span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><a href="mailto:cbosch@karpinskieng.com" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>cbosch@karpinskieng.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> Equest-users [</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</span></a></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Rathna Shree<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 27, 2015 3:49 AM<br><b>To:</b> Bishop, Bill; Sambhav Tiwari<br><b>Cc:</b> Equest Users Mailing List<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Air cooled chillers versus water cooled chillers</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div id=yiv8861323247yqt39040><div id="yiv8861323247yui_3_16_0_1_1445931527405_4232"><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Dear Sambhav/ William Bishop<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div id="yiv8861323247yui_3_16_0_1_1445931527405_4232"><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div id="yiv8861323247yui_3_16_0_1_1445931527405_4232"><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Thank you for the replies.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div id="yiv8861323247yui_3_16_0_1_1445931527405_4231"><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div id="yiv8861323247yui_3_16_0_1_1445931527405_4218"><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>I have modelled the baseline case as per the requirements of Appendix G (Pumps, cooling tower power etc is modeled as per ASHRAE 90.1 2007). Just to confirm, 22W/gpm has to be split between base and proposed case based on a ASHRAE interpretation.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div id="yiv8861323247yui_3_16_0_1_1445931527405_4218"><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div id="yiv8861323247yui_3_16_0_1_1445931527405_4218"><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>With the exact modeling, i am getting result where variable primary pumping system - air cooled screw chillers are performing almost equal or better than baseline centrifugal chiller. These results seem little surprising. So i am unsure whether it is correct. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div id="yiv8861323247yui_3_16_0_1_1445931527405_4218"><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div id="yiv8861323247yui_3_16_0_1_1445931527405_4218"><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>It would be really helpful if the experts can confirm the results.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div id="yiv8861323247yui_3_16_0_1_1445931527405_4218"><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div id="yiv8861323247yui_3_16_0_1_1445931527405_4218"><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Thank you.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div id="yiv8861323247yui_3_16_0_1_1445931527405_4218"><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div id="yiv8861323247yui_3_16_0_1_1445931527405_4218"><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div id="yiv8861323247yui_3_16_0_1_1445931527405_4218"><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Rathnashree<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div id="yiv8861323247yui_3_16_0_1_1445931527405_4218"><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div id="yiv8861323247yui_3_16_0_1_1445931527405_4218"><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><div id=yiv8861323247yqt80400><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>On Monday, 19 October 2015 7:27 PM, "Bishop, Bill" <</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><a href="mailto:bbishop@pathfinder-ea.com" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>bbishop@pathfinder-ea.com</span></a></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>> wrote:</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div id=yiv8861323247><div><div><div id=yiv8861323247yqt81038><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Rathna,</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>There are several inputs in eQUEST that impact your CHW plant pumping energy as modeled for Appendix G:</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>1.)</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>CHW pump power should be 22 W/gpm per G3.1.3.10. I don’t recall how “official” it is but many on this forum interpret this as for the entire primary/secondary pumping, meaning it should be split between the primary and secondary pumps. (For example, 10 W/gpm for the primary loop pump and 12 W/gpm for the secondary loop pump.) Splitting vs. not splitting is one of the major influences of Baseline pump power.</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>2.)</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>CW pump power should be 19 W/gpm per G3.1.3.11.</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>3.)</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>CHW coils should use CHW-VALVE-TYPE of TWO-WAY to facilitate variable flow through the secondary loop, regardless of using a variable-speed drive for the secondary loop pump (for cooling capacity ≥ 300 tons) or “riding the pump curve” with a single-speed pump (cooling capacity < 300 tons).</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>4.)</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>The loop HEAD-SETPT-CTRL and HEAD-SENSOR-LOCN have major influences on pump energy. There is no requirement in Appendix G. that specifies the type of control. In order of least to best efficiency, the settings are:</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div style='margin-left:1.0in'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>a.</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>FIXED; AT-PUMP</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div style='margin-left:1.0in'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>b.</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>FIXED; ENTERING-LOOP</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div style='margin-left:1.0in'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>c.</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>FIXED; AT-COILS</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div style='margin-left:1.0in'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>d.</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>VALVE-RESET; n/a</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>I think FIXED, AT-COILS is a reasonable setting for both the Baseline and Proposed models, unless the Proposed design has the controls to survey the positions of all coils and implement the VALVE-RESET strategy, and then I use that in the Proposed.</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>5.)</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>LOOP-OPERATION impacts all CHW end-uses (cooling, pumping, heat rejection) especially if cooling is not needed year-round. This is also not specified in Appendix G. STANDBY keeps the CHW plant running when any systems with CHW capability are running. DEMAND-ONLY turns the CHW plant off unless there is a coil or process load for that hour. I think either setting is fair as long as it is kept identical between the Baseline and Proposed models.</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Besides pumping energy, there is an easily-overlooked Baseline requirement per G3.1.3.11 of axial fan cooling towers with two-speed fans. Table 6.8.1G shows the minimum performance requirement of ≥38.2 gpm/hp. You have to calculate the fan kW from this based on the autosized tower flow and enter it as FAN-KW/FLOW or EIR. The eQUEST default EIR of 0.0105 for open towers is actually more efficient than the Table 6.8.1G requirement.</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Regards,</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>~Bill</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>William Bishop, PE, BEMP, BEAP, CEM, LEED AP | Pathfinder Engineers & Architects LLP</span></b><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 width=526 style='width:394.8pt;border-collapse:collapse'><tr style='height:13.45pt'><td width=345 style='width:258.45pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;height:13.45pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:105%'><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;line-height:105%'>Senior Energy Engineer</span></b><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></td><td width=182 rowspan=6 style='width:136.35pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;height:13.45pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:105%'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;line-height:105%'><img border=0 width=70 height=47 id="yiv8861323247Picture_x0020_4" src="cid:image001.jpg@01D11156.97EBD5D0" alt="cid:image001.jpg@01D110D0.903D6640"> <img border=0 width=57 height=49 id="yiv8861323247Picture_x0020_2" src="cid:image002.jpg@01D11156.97EBD5D0" alt="cid:image002.jpg@01D110D0.903D6640"></span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></td></tr><tr style='height:4.55pt'><td width=345 valign=top style='width:258.45pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;height:4.55pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-line-height-alt:4.55pt'><span style='font-size:5.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></td></tr><tr style='height:9.8pt'><td width=345 nowrap valign=bottom style='width:258.45pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;height:9.8pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:9.8pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt'>134 South Fitzhugh Street Rochester, NY 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style='font-size:9.0pt'>www.pathfinder-ea.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></td></tr><tr style='height:24.6pt'><td width=345 valign=top style='width:258.45pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;height:24.6pt'><div style='margin-top:3.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:105%'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;line-height:105%'><img border=0 width=42 height=40 id="yiv8861323247Picture_x0020_5" src="cid:image003.png@01D11156.97EBD5D0" alt="http://png-5.findicons.com/files/icons/977/rrze/720/globe.png"></span><span style='font-size:7.5pt;line-height:105%'>Carbon Fee and Dividend - simple, effective, and market-based.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></td></tr></table></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div id=yiv8861323247yqt17382><div id=yiv8861323247yqt34223><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> Equest-users [</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</span></a></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Rathna Shree<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, October 19, 2015 1:03 AM<br><b>To:</b> Sambhav Tiwari <</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><a href="mailto:tiwari.sambhav@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>tiwari.sambhav@gmail.com</span></a></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>><br><b>Cc:</b> Equest Users Mailing List <</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</span></a></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Air cooled chillers versus water cooled chillers</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div id=yiv8861323247yqt52750><div id="yiv8861323247yui_3_16_0_1_1445230862479_2758"><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Hi Sambhav,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div id="yiv8861323247yui_3_16_0_1_1445230862479_2758"><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div id="yiv8861323247yui_3_16_0_1_1445230862479_2758"><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Does that mean, air cooled chillers with variable primary pumping system performance is almost equivalent or better than the ASHRAE 90.1 2007 defined water cooled centrifugal chiller system?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div id="yiv8861323247yui_3_16_0_1_1445230862479_2758"><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div id="yiv8861323247yui_3_16_0_1_1445230862479_2758"><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div id="yiv8861323247yui_3_16_0_1_1445230862479_2758"><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Rathnashree<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div id=yiv8861323247yqt01698><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>On Saturday, 17 October 2015 12:57 PM, Sambhav Tiwari <</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><a href="mailto:tiwari.sambhav@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>tiwari.sambhav@gmail.com</span></a></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>> wrote:</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div id=yiv8861323247><div><div id=yiv8861323247yqt94565><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Hi Rathanashree,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>For me the results seems to be alright<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>1 Being a air cooled chiller with less COP than baseline water cooled your compressor energy consumption is increasing which is clear from the results .<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>2 Now there is a debate going these day to replace ( constant primary & variable secondary pumps) with variable primary pump system although many HVAC experts advocate against it that it can have negative impacts on chiller too.But definitely it will save energy consumption under pumps which is clear from your results your proposed case is left only with VFD based primary pump compared with baseline of ( constant primary+variable secondary+constant condenser water pumps) therefore pumps energy is too less and justified to me.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>3 Your cooling tower energy consumption will be nil in proposed case being a air cooled system that is also fine.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>But the main driver or you can say main ECM in your analysis is variable primary and no secondary chiller which is contributing siginifant savings in pumps along with no cooling tower present hence your over all energy saving are positive.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Hope this may help.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Warm Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Sambhav<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div><div><div id=yiv8861323247yqt14645><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 11:50 PM, Rathna Shree <<a href="mailto:rathnashreep@yahoo.in" target="_blank">rathnashreep@yahoo.in</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div id=yiv8861323247yqt67326><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Dear All,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>A project has 14 floors and 3.5 lakhs sq.ft. of conditioned area. The project is going for LEED certification. The baseline HVAC system will be Variable air volume system with water cooled centrifugal chiller of COP 6.1. LPD is maintained at 0.7W/sft. Building envelope is more or less equal to baseline case. In this scenario, the proposed HVAC system is air cooled screw chillers with variable primary pumping system. Even though the project is getting negative results in cooling category, there is a huge savings from pumps which is compensating for the negative in cooling energy consumption. Ultimately, the overall plant energy consumption (Cooling, heat rejection, pumps) is lesser in proposed case than base case. I am surprised with the result as i believe for such a building, water cooled chillers work more efficiently. For more clarity, the results are given as below:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Base case: Cooling: 14,26,659 KWH, Heat rejection: 1,23,357 KWH, Pumps: 426,506 KWH<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Proposed case: Cooling: 17,89,814 KWH, Heat rejection: 0 KWH, Pumps: 62,264 KWH<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>These are results are for default chiller curves in both the cases. If air cooled part load values are used, then cooling energy consumption further reduces in proposed case. Then can it be concluded that air cooled with primary variable pumping system is a good alternative to use. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Is this conclusion appropriate? Are the results correct? Please help.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Rathnashree<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><br>_______________________________________________<br>Equest-users mailing list<br><a href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org" target="_blank">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org</a><br>To unsubscribe from this mailing list send a blank message to <a href="mailto:EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG" target="_blank">EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></blockquote></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div><div style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>