<div dir="ltr"><font color="#0000ff">Adam,</font><div><font color="#0000ff"><br></font></div><div><font color="#0000ff">I will like to say something about curve and the part load factor values and also on hot water return temperature.</font></div><div><font color="#0000ff">The curves in the condensing part load based curve is dependent on two things the part load factor and hot water return temperature and the resulting is HIR.</font></div><div><font color="#0000ff">You can have a look at the data points in the default condensing curve.</font></div><div><br></div><div style="text-align:left"><img src="cid:ii_1501d6acfb322a0a" alt="Inline image 1" width="443" height="336"><br></div><div><font color="#0000ff">As mostly the design supply water temperature is nearly 130 °F for condensing boiler and the hot water default delta T is 40 ° F.</font></div><div><font color="#0000ff">So the supply design temperature is 120°F as per eQUEST if there is 80 °F return water temperature.</font></div><div><font color="#0000ff">Also i found as after few simulations that the HIR below 1.00 i.e. Z is not the possible condition for simulation for HIR input in eQUEST at full load.</font></div><div><font color="#0000ff">The best condition for the default curves to operate as per condensing boiler curve to have operate is the return water temperature is 80 °F.</font><span style="color:rgb(0,0,255)">At lower temperature the efficiency are the best for part load and full load which can be seen from the data points.</span></div><div><font color="#0000ff"><br></font></div><div><font color="#0000ff">As from your snapshot of PS-C command the boilers are operating at full load for more number of hours for the return water temperature 80 °F.and at 160 °F the boilers are operating more at part loads.</font></div><div><font color="#0000ff">Going to 160 °F return water temperature the boiler have lower efficiency at all loads which can be seen from curve data points.</font></div><div><font color="#0000ff"><br></font></div><div><font color="#0000ff">But as per your snapshot the number of hours being operated for part load is much higher at 120°F and there is less energy consumption and at part load there is less fuel input required.</font></div><div><font color="#0000ff">It is the default curve nature that is resulting in better performance at higher return temperature as at that time the boiler are more being operated at part loads and at part load the energy consumption is less.Hope this will make your words coherent with mine.</font></div><div><br></div><div><font color="#0000ff"><br></font></div><div><font color="#0000ff">Thanks,</font></div><div><font color="#0000ff">Sharad.Kumar</font></div><div><font color="#0000ff">Green Horizon Consulting LLP</font></div><div><font color="#0000ff">Gurgaon</font></div><div><font color="#0000ff">India.</font></div><div><font color="#0000ff"><br></font></div><div><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 1:31 AM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:equest-users-request@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-request@lists.onebuilding.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">Send Equest-users mailing list submissions to<br>
<a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<br>
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>
<a href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org</a><br>
<br>
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>
<a href="mailto:equest-users-request@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-request@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<br>
You can reach the person managing the list at<br>
<a href="mailto:equest-users-owner@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-owner@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<br>
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>
than "Re: Contents of Equest-users digest..."<br>
<br>Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: Condensing boiler curve issues (Porter, Frederick NOR)<br>
<br><br><div bgcolor="white" lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><br></p>
<div>
<div style="border-style:solid none none;border-top-color:rgb(181,196,223);border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:windowtext"> Equest-users [mailto:<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Adam Barker<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, September 25, 2015 2:39 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Brian Fountain<br>
<b>Cc:</b> 'equest-users'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [External] Re: [Equest-users] Condensing boiler curve issues<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Sure Brian, thanks, and thanks to the others that responded.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">I believe what’s happening has to do with the part load, which as you say seems to have a big influence, as well as how the boilers are staged (or aren’t staged).
My boilers are at very low part loads most of the time. As mentioned if I increase that return water temperature, not touching anything else, my fuel use goes down. Looking at PS-C, it is going
<i>up </i>at higher part loads, but getting better, i.e. going <i>down</i>, at very low part loads – where my boilers are spending most of their time operating, hence the net decrease in energy consumption.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">PS-C results for my lead boiler (does most of the work)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">At 80F return water temp:
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><img border="0" width="914" height="129" src="cid:image002.png@01D0FA04.0AEEA6D0"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">At 100 F return water temp:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><img border="0" width="901" height="64" src="cid:image004.png@01D0FA04.0AEEA6D0"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">At 120F return water temp (which is probably closest to reality, but I don’t trust the results):<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><img border="0" width="907" height="70" src="cid:image005.png@01D0FA04.0AEEA6D0"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Am I getting to the fringes of this curve’s limits so its starting to go out of whack?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Adam<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border-style:solid none none;border-top-color:rgb(181,196,223);border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:windowtext"> Brian Fountain [<a href="mailto:bfountain@greensim.com" target="_blank">mailto:bfountain@greensim.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 24, 2015 9:54 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Adam Barker<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Condensing boiler curve issues<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt">Hi Adam,<br>
<br>
That is not what I have seen with the curve. Note that there is a rated return water temperature field in the boiler at which the boiler achieves the rated HIR (thermal efficiency). I have seen the curve be strongly dependent on loading -- i.e. much more
efficient when the boiler has a low part load.<br>
<br>
I did see an overlay of the default eQUEST condensing boiler curve and a Lochinvar Benchmark curve and they corresponded reasonably well.<br>
<br>
I'd be interested in taking a peek at your file if you are able to share (perhaps a generic version of it).
<br>
<br>
Brian<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 22/09/2015 4:02 PM, Adam Barker wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<pre>Has anyone come across issues with the default condensing boiler curve in eQuest? This curve is a function of part load and return water temperature, and based on how condensing boilers work you would anticipate the part load efficiency to get worse as return water temperature increased (assuming part load is the same).<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><u></u> <u></u></pre>
<pre>I am seeing the opposite in eQuest, where the default 80F RWT is giving me a poor seasonal efficiency, and a temperature like 160 RWT (in the non-condensing spectrum) is giving me a very high seasonal efficiency.<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><u></u> <u></u></pre>
<pre>Any insight into why this might be happening?<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><u></u> <u></u></pre>
<pre>Adam Barker, MBSc, C.E.T., LEED AP BD+C<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>Energy Project Manager<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>Provident Energy Management Inc.<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>T: 416-736-0630 x 1874 | <a href="mailto:abarker@pemi.com" target="_blank">abarker@pemi.com</a><a href="mailto:abarker@pemi.com" target="_blank"><mailto:abarker@pemi.com></a><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><u></u> <u></u></pre>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>Equest-users mailing list<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><a href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org" target="_blank">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org</a><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>To unsubscribe from this mailing list send a blank message to <a href="mailto:EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG" target="_blank">EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG</a><u></u><u></u></pre>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
Equest-users mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">Equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div>