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--></style></head><body lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#002060">This thread/discussion has grown in a few directions (on and off-list), but I think I may be able to trim some of the branches:</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#002060"> </span></p><p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#002060"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">1.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#002060">A visual would clearly help some to follow along with the topic at-hand. The following illustration is lifted from <a href="https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCEQFjAAahUKEwjfxeH4hrvHAhUIjQ0KHTo3BPI&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ashrae.org%2FFile%2520Library%2FdocLib%2FPublic%2FASHRAE-D-23127-20041201.pdf&ei=WY_XVZ-1IoiaNrrukJAP&usg=AFQjCNFhqu-mppFWzpeb46wGb5rUKD2Jcg&cad=rja">an ASHRAE Journal article discussing reheat design options</a>. This picture shows one means by which a heatpump in cooling operation can effect dehumidification by subcooling the supply airstream and then leveraging some of the “free” hot gas reheat to bring it up to design supply temperatures:</span></p><p class="MsoListParagraph"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#002060"><img border="0" width="377" height="279" id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image001.png@01D0DC1C.C066EC30"></span></p><p class="MsoListParagraph"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#002060">Summarizing the query: Is it appropriate to have dehumidification with 90.1 App.G baseline heatpump systems occur without the use of “free” hot gas contributions, but rather with electric resistance only (and if so, how)? </span></p><p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#002060"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">2.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#002060">I believe it is mutually understood and expected that electric resistance reheat is expected to expend more energy than a refrigerant heat recovery cycle, all things being equal. That is why this topic is of interest to start with (to maximize baseline energy consumption where appropriate).</span></p><p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#002060"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">3.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#002060">The entire sub-discussion regarding 6.5.2.3 exceptions seems out of place to my thinking: This section (6.5) is solely for demonstrating prescriptive compliance and as such has no direct bearing on Appendix G. Baseline and Proposed case systems must follow the “X.4” mandatory requirements (i.e. 6.4), but are not required to demonstrate prescriptive compliance. </span></p><p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#002060"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">4.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#002060">To voice my opinion regarding whether this is appropriate to pursue at all: For a proposed design case where dehumidification requirements cannot inherently take advantage of a heatpump reheat cycle, I believe Kathryn’s efforts to specify the baseline system dehumidification means is well within the realm of reasonable interpretation. The effect on the baseline systems is more like “leveling the playing field” than “gaming the system.” </span></p><p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#002060"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">5.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#002060">Appendix G (under 2007) <u>directly</u> addresses humidity controls in two places:</span></p><p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:1.0in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#002060"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">a.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#002060">In Table G3.1.1.b. “…temperature and humidity control setpoints and schedules shall be the same for proposed and baseline building designs.”</span></p><p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:1.0in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#002060"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">b.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#002060">In G3.2.3.10, an exception (g) concerning dehumidification may remove baseline energy recovery requirements otherwise occuring.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#002060">Appendix G does not specify how dehumidification is to occur, for any system type. I am not aware of any further direction on this matter via LEED C.I. All told I’d be comfortable making this distinction in a clear fashion during preliminary submission.</span></p><p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#002060"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">6.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#002060">Regarding the proposed “how” method to lock out reheat: I think fewer steps are necessary using the eQUEST interface. Without specifying reheat is recovered for “space heating,” you can right click the field for the recovery fraction and assign a user default or user default expression (effecting 0.0 or otherwise), and this produces a “space heating” enduse consumption difference consistent with expectations. On the aside: I’m not clear on why it defaults to ‘unused’ (i.e. “n/a” in the interface):</span></p><p class="MsoListParagraph"><img border="0" width="344" height="119" id="_x0000_i1028" src="cid:image002.png@01D0DC20.896C8880"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#002060"></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#002060"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#002060">While “space heating” energy consumption is higher with the recovery fraction set to zero (as might be expected if reheat is occurring via resistance heat), I can’t say with 100% certainty a “dehumidification electric reheat coil” is exactly what’s being simulated based on what the DOE2 documentation omits in description of default dehumidification operations. Perhaps a comparative model of a DX/Electric and DX/HP PSZ (specifying a recovery fraction of 0.0 for the latter) might confirm that’s what is happening.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#002060"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#002060">Of note, I wanted to point out and request clarification on some margin notes in Volume 3 that caught my eye and might be of concern here: <i>“note that HEAT-PUMP is not a legitimate choice when humidity control is required.”</i> Is this some red-herring language left over from before heat-pump dehumidification worked with DOE2, or is there an actual limitation requiring further explanation at play?</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:.5in"><img border="0" width="618" height="642" id="Picture_x0020_2" src="cid:image003.png@01D0DC30.59DB4E70"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#002060"></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#002060"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#002060"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#002060">~Nick</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#002060"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#002060"> </span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#002060">NICK CATON, P.E.</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><br></span><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#561782">Owner</span></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#561782"> </span></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#561782">Caton Energy Consulting</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><br></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> 306 N Ferrel</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> Olathe, KS 66061</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> office: 785.410.3317</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#561782"><a href="www.catonenergy.com"><span style="color:#561782">www.catonenergy.com</span></a></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#002060"></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#002060"> </span></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Equest-users [mailto:<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Daric Adair<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 18, 2015 6:36 PM<br><b>To:</b> Kathryn Kerns; Sharad Kumar; <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Is it possible to disable PSZ heat pump hot gas reheat dehumidification and enable PSZ electric coil dehumidification?</span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Kathryn;</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Interesting experiment on the heating. And good investigative work.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Your results confirm the point made in that hot gas reheat is more efficient than using electric heating for dehumidification. If the only heat source for the PSZ HPs is the Heat Pump, which has a COP greater than 1, then it will be more efficient than electric heat which has a COP of 1. Thus, the electric heating consuming 2 times the amount of heating energy as compared to the heat pumps is valid and is within the range of expectations.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">The ‘why’ part is still incorrect on the basis that the reading is incomplete. While 6.5.2.3 does allow for simultaneous heating and cooling for dehumidification, the wording of G3.1.3.1 on electric heat control is just as important. The Appendix G-2007 G3.1.3.1 wording: </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">“Electric air-source heat pumps shall be modeled with electric auxiliary heat. The systems shall be controlled with a multistage space thermostats and an outdoor air thermostat wired to energize auxiliary heat only on the last thermostat stage and when outdoor air temperature is less than 40°F.” </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">The wording states that the electric heat should not operate when the outside air temperature is above 40°F. It doesn’t matter than it doesn’t explicitly say “dehumidification” and that is also covers the case of decreasing heat output from a heat pump as outside air temperature drops. It says electric heating cannot operate when the outside air temperature is above 40°F. Typically when we are worried about dehumidification the outside air temperature is greater than this. Additionally, if we are dehumidifying we’re running a cooling coil; which means the hot gas reheat is possible; and should be used. By forcing electric heat to run when hot gas reheat is available will increase the energy consumed for baseline heating, as your experimental results showed. </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I am hopeful others can chime-in here and add to the discussion. </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Maybe also address the fact that Dehumidification appears not be directly address in Appendix G or a LEED CI. Can anyone confirm this? </span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Thanks,</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial Black",sans-serif;color:black;text-transform:uppercase">DARIC R. ADAIR</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial Black",sans-serif;color:black;text-transform:uppercase"> PE, C.E.M.</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> <br></span><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#566c11">Henderson Engineers, Inc. | </span></b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#566c11">Mechanical Engineer, Energy Analyst</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> <br></span><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;font-variant:small-caps;color:black">dir</span></b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> 913 742 5530 <b><span style="font-variant:small-caps">tel</span></b> 913 742 5000 <b><span style="font-variant:small-caps">fax</span></b> 913 742 5001 <b><span style="font-variant:small-caps">tx id</span></b> #F-001236 <b><span style="font-variant:small-caps">email</span></b> <a href="mailto:daric.adair@hei-eng.com">daric.adair@hei-eng.com</a></span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> <a href="http://www.hei-eng.com/"><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:#566c11">www.hei-eng.com</span></b></a> <br></span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Licensed in KS.</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Kathryn Kerns [<a href="mailto:kathryn.kerns@bceengineers.com">mailto:kathryn.kerns@bceengineers.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 18, 2015 4:59 PM<br><b>To:</b> Daric Adair <<a href="mailto:Daric.Adair@hei-eng.com">Daric.Adair@hei-eng.com</a>>; Sharad Kumar <<a href="mailto:sharadcapricious@gmail.com">sharadcapricious@gmail.com</a>>; <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] Is it possible to disable PSZ heat pump hot gas reheat dehumidification and enable PSZ electric coil dehumidification?</span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Daric, the “how” you have listed below is very interesting and I will try it out. I am only guessing that the extra heating energy that appears in the output files when the PSZ heat pump type with dehumidification active is gas reheat. The only things I do know about using the PSZ heat pump option is that: 1) extra heating energy occurs when dehumidification active and 2) the amount of extra heat added for dehumidification does not use a COP of 1. I know 1) is correct because I can see the difference in the output files and I know 2) is correct because I performed and experiment and can see the difference in the output files. In my experiment, I created two duplicate energy models and substituted the PSZ DX electric coil option for PSZ heat pump option, used heat pump cooling EIRs for DX EIRs, and left one model with no dehumidification and one model with dehumidification active. The output files show that the amount of heat energy providing dehumidification for the PSZ DX electric coil models is almost 2 times larger than the amount of heat providing dehumidification for the PSZ heat pump models. From this, I have to conclude that the PSZ heat pump option is using something else besides electric heat for dehumidification. I can’t think of anything other heating source, so I am guessing hot gas reheat.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">As to the “why”; it is important to get the most accurate baseline per the LEED directions as possible in order to maximize energy savings. The baseline directions for the auxiliary heater going off and on at 40 F etc. has everything to do with making sure that baseline and proposed heat pumps operate consistently at low outside air temperatures. This has nothing to do with providing a dehumidification cycle. That is why the exceptions for dehumidification show up in a different section of ASHRAE 90.1. The dehumidification electric coil and the heat pump auxiliary electric heating coil don’t have to be the same device.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">This is definitely not gaming the system but an effort to make sure that our proposed desiccant DOA/VRF HVAC system is being properly compared to a multitude of little baseline heat pumps in a building located in a damp climate. This is a case that has come up repeatedly for our company when designing buildings in Hawaii and Texas.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Thanks for the input. I will try messing with ‘MAX-COND-RCVRY’. I just wish I knew for sure that the additional dehumidification heat has something to do with hot gas reheat.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Kathryn Kerns</span></b><span style="color:#1f497d"></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Systems Specialist</span></b><span style="color:#1f497d"></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-variant:small-caps;color:teal">BCE</span></b><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-variant:small-caps;color:teal"> </span><span style="font-variant:small-caps;color:teal">Engineers, Inc.</span></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:black">| Ph: 253.922.0446 | Fx: 253.922.0896 |</span></b><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:black"> </span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Equest-users [<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Daric Adair<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 18, 2015 2:02 PM<br><b>To:</b> Sharad Kumar <<a href="mailto:sharadcapricious@gmail.com">sharadcapricious@gmail.com</a>>; <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Is it possible to disable PSZ heat pump hot gas reheat dehumidification and enable PSZ electric coil dehumidification?</span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Kathryn;</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">>From your original message you are asking if there is a way to lock out condenser heat recovery and exclusively use electric reheat as part of the humidification sequence. Is this correct? There is a method that might work, but I wanted to confirm the thought process first.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I reviewed the referenced 6.5.2.3 Exceptions b and c sighted, where it allows reheat based on combinations of capacity & turndown. The fact that is not necessarily clear is why you believe the use of electric heat should/would take less energy than the use of the ‘free’ heat that hot-gas reheat offers. The electric heat consumes power. The hot gas reheat is ‘free’ for use since the heat generated by the compressor & refrigeration process must be rejected by the condenser. Directing a portion of this heat back into the dehumidified, but overcooled, airstream would be more efficient in most cases.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Also important to note is that you reference ‘baseline’ systems as falling into this exception. If this is the situation, then the 6.5.2.3. exception does not apply due to G3.1.3.1. which states that electric auxiliary heat is only allowed below 40°F. There is also a LEED CI that states that the compressor will continue to function in concert with the electric heat down to 17°F. Below this, only electric heat is required. The use of electric heat as reheat as part of a dehumidification sequence in this case is not allowed. A review comment on the source of reheat wouldn’t be out of the realm of possibility. At a minimum, this feels like ‘gaming the system.’</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">The only potential wedge issue that could be argued is if your Proposed building was DX and not using hot gas reheat for some reason. Appendix G does not appear to have a section dedicated to Humidification/Dehumidification that I can tell. Please correct me if I have overlooked/missed this. I didn’t see it in 2007, 2010, or 2013.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Now, back to the ‘how’. Under the Systems > Heating > Cap Curves/Waste Ht tabs. In the Waste Heat section, change the ‘Waste Heat Use’ to space heat. This should, but doesn’t, enable the ‘Max Cond Recvry for Spc Heat’ input. The keyword is ‘MAX-COND-RCVRY’. Take this into the .inp file and paste this keyword with ‘ =0.25’ or whatever your recovery ratio is in the System descriptor. Reload the model. This input box is now ‘active’, and can be modified to fit design documents. To lock it out, I would think a values of 0.0 tells eQuest that none of the heat can be recovered.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Anyone else have any input on the above two things? [The ‘Why’ of doing this and the ‘How’ of actually doing it]. Would be curious to hear other’s thoughts…</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Thanks,</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial Black",sans-serif;color:black;text-transform:uppercase">DARIC R. ADAIR</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial Black",sans-serif;color:black;text-transform:uppercase"> PE, C.E.M.</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> <br></span><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#566c11">Henderson Engineers, Inc. | </span></b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#566c11">Mechanical Engineer, Energy Analyst</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> <br></span><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;font-variant:small-caps;color:black">dir</span></b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> 913 742 5530 <b><span style="font-variant:small-caps">tel</span></b> 913 742 5000 <b><span style="font-variant:small-caps">fax</span></b> 913 742 5001 <b><span style="font-variant:small-caps">tx id</span></b> #F-001236 <b><span style="font-variant:small-caps">email</span></b> <a href="mailto:daric.adair@hei-eng.com">daric.adair@hei-eng.com</a></span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> <a href="http://www.hei-eng.com/"><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:#566c11">www.hei-eng.com</span></b></a> <br></span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Licensed in KS.</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Sharad Kumar [<a href="mailto:sharadcapricious@gmail.com">mailto:sharadcapricious@gmail.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 18, 2015 1:24 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Is it possible to disable PSZ heat pump hot gas reheat dehumidification and enable PSZ electric coil dehumidification?</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:blue">Hi Kathryn,</span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:blue">As per me there is no system such as heat pump hot gas reheat de-humidification system.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:blue">The de-humidification system mainly consists of a cooling system (cooling coil) which can form condensate to reduce the moisture content of air and segregate it from air.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:blue">In your case the gas reheat de-humidification can be considered as electrical coil humidifier which can bring good enough savings.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:blue">In the electric coil humidification the heat source for latent heat of vaporization is electricity or in case of furnace, gas or fuel is the source of heat for water to be vaporized and so on.</span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:blue">Thanks,</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:blue">Sharad.Kumar.</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:blue">Green Horizon Consulting LLP</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:blue">Gurgaon</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:blue">India</span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 1:31 AM, <<a href="mailto:equest-users-request@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-request@lists.onebuilding.org</a>> wrote:</p><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><p class="MsoNormal">Send Equest-users mailing list submissions to<br> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><br>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br> <a href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org" target="_blank">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org</a><br><br>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br> <a href="mailto:equest-users-request@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-request@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><br>You can reach the person managing the list at<br> <a href="mailto:equest-users-owner@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-owner@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><br>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>than "Re: Contents of Equest-users digest..."<br><br>Today's Topics:<br><br> 1. Is it possible to disable PSZ heat pump hot gas reheat<br> dehumidification and enable PSZ electric coil dehumidification?<br> (Kathryn Kerns)<br><br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: Kathryn Kerns <<a href="mailto:kathryn.kerns@bceengineers.com">kathryn.kerns@bceengineers.com</a>><br>To: "<a href="mailto:Marlin.Addison@asu.edu">Marlin.Addison@asu.edu</a>" <<a href="mailto:Marlin.Addison@asu.edu">Marlin.Addison@asu.edu</a>>, "<a href="mailto:kevinm@madisonengineeringps.com">kevinm@madisonengineeringps.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:kevinm@madisonengineeringps.com">kevinm@madisonengineeringps.com</a>>, Jeff Hirsch <<a href="mailto:Jeff.Hirsch@doe2.com">Jeff.Hirsch@doe2.com</a>><br>Cc: "<a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a>>, Chris Caffee <<a href="mailto:chris.caffee@bceengineers.com">chris.caffee@bceengineers.com</a>><br>Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 18:49:34 +0000<br>Subject: [Equest-users] Is it possible to disable PSZ heat pump hot gas reheat dehumidification and enable PSZ electric coil dehumidification?</p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Everyone, does anyone know of a way to disable PSZ heat pump hot gas reheat dehumidification (at least I think that is what the extra heating energy represents) and enable electric coil dehumidification reheat? Most of my LEED baseline heat pump energy models with dehumidification usually have thermal blocks HVAC units that fall into the ASHRAE 90.1-2007 section 6.5.2.3 exception b and c categories, which allows the standard dehumidification simultaneous heating and cooling cycle. I am missing out on energy savings.</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Thanks,</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Kathryn Kerns</span></b></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Systems Specialist</span></b></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-variant:small-caps;color:teal">BCE</span></b><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-variant:small-caps;color:teal"> </span><span style="font-variant:small-caps;color:teal">Engineers, Inc.</span></b></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:black">| Ph: 253.922.0446 | Fx: 253.922.0896 |</span></b><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:black"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>_______________________________________________<br>Equest-users mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">Equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org" target="_blank">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org</a></p></blockquote></div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><hr size="2" width="100%" align="center"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:gray"><br>This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. 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