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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Daric, the “how” you have listed below is very interesting and I will try it out. I am only guessing that the extra heating energy that appears in the output
files when the PSZ heat pump type with dehumidification active is gas reheat. The only things I do know about using the PSZ heat pump option is that: 1) extra heating energy occurs when dehumidification active and 2) the amount of extra heat added for dehumidification
does not use a COP of 1. I know 1) is correct because I can see the difference in the output files and I know 2) is correct because I performed and experiment and can see the difference in the output files. In my experiment, I created two duplicate energy
models and substituted the PSZ DX electric coil option for PSZ heat pump option, used heat pump cooling EIRs for DX EIRs, and left one model with no dehumidification and one model with dehumidification active. The output files show that the amount of heat
energy providing dehumidification for the PSZ DX electric coil models is almost 2 times larger than the amount of heat providing dehumidification for the PSZ heat pump models. From this, I have to conclude that the PSZ heat pump option is using something
else besides electric heat for dehumidification. I can’t think of anything other heating source, so I am guessing hot gas reheat.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">As to the “why”; it is important to get the most accurate baseline per the LEED directions as possible in order to maximize energy savings. The baseline directions
for the auxiliary heater going off and on at 40 F etc. has everything to do with making sure that baseline and proposed heat pumps operate consistently at low outside air temperatures. This has nothing to do with providing a dehumidification cycle. That is
why the exceptions for dehumidification show up in a different section of ASHRAE 90.1. The dehumidification electric coil and the heat pump auxiliary electric heating coil don’t have to be the same device.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">This is definitely not gaming the system but an effort to make sure that our proposed desiccant DOA/VRF HVAC system is being properly compared to a multitude
of little baseline heat pumps in a building located in a damp climate. This is a case that has come up repeatedly for our company when designing buildings in Hawaii and Texas.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Thanks for the input. I will try messing with ‘</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">MAX-COND-RCVRY’. I just wish
I knew for sure that the additional dehumidification heat has something to do with hot gas reheat.</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Kathryn Kerns</span></b><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Systems Specialist</span></b><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-variant:small-caps;color:teal">BCE</span></b><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-variant:small-caps;color:teal">
</span></b><b><span style="font-variant:small-caps;color:teal">Engineers, Inc.<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:black">| Ph: 253.922.0446 | Fx: 253.922.0896 |</span></b><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:black">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Equest-users [mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Daric Adair<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 18, 2015 2:02 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Sharad Kumar <sharadcapricious@gmail.com>; equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Is it possible to disable PSZ heat pump hot gas reheat dehumidification and enable PSZ electric coil dehumidification?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Kathryn;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">From your original message you are asking if there is a way to lock out condenser heat recovery and exclusively use electric reheat as part of the humidification
sequence. Is this correct? There is a method that might work, but I wanted to confirm the thought process first.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I reviewed the referenced 6.5.2.3 Exceptions b and c sighted, where it allows reheat based on combinations of capacity & turndown. The fact that is not necessarily
clear is why you believe the use of electric heat should/would take less energy than the use of the ‘free’ heat that hot-gas reheat offers. The electric heat consumes power. The hot gas reheat is ‘free’ for use since the heat generated by the compressor &
refrigeration process must be rejected by the condenser. Directing a portion of this heat back into the dehumidified, but overcooled, airstream would be more efficient in most cases.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Also important to note is that you reference ‘baseline’ systems as falling into this exception. If this is the situation, then the 6.5.2.3. exception does not
apply due to G3.1.3.1. which states that electric auxiliary heat is only allowed below 40°F. There is also a LEED CI that states that the compressor will continue to function in concert with the electric heat down to 17°F. Below this, only electric heat is
required. The use of electric heat as reheat as part of a dehumidification sequence in this case is not allowed. A review comment on the source of reheat wouldn’t be out of the realm of possibility. At a minimum, this feels like ‘gaming the system.’<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">The only potential wedge issue that could be argued is if your Proposed building was DX and not using hot gas reheat for some reason. Appendix G does not appear
to have a section dedicated to Humidification/Dehumidification that I can tell. Please correct me if I have overlooked/missed this. I didn’t see it in 2007, 2010, or 2013.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Now, back to the ‘how’. Under the Systems > Heating > Cap Curves/Waste Ht tabs. In the Waste Heat section, change the ‘Waste Heat Use’ to space heat. This should,
but doesn’t, enable the ‘Max Cond Recvry for Spc Heat’ input. The keyword is ‘MAX-COND-RCVRY’. Take this into the .inp file and paste this keyword with ‘ =0.25’ or whatever your recovery ratio is in the System descriptor. Reload the model. This input box is
now ‘active’, and can be modified to fit design documents. To lock it out, I would think a values of 0.0 tells eQuest that none of the heat can be recovered.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Anyone else have any input on the above two things? [The ‘Why’ of doing this and the ‘How’ of actually doing it]. Would be curious to hear other’s thoughts…<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial Black",sans-serif;color:black;text-transform:uppercase">DARIC R. ADAIR</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">
</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial Black",sans-serif;color:black;text-transform:uppercase"> PE, C.E.M.</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">
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</span><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#566C11">Henderson Engineers, Inc. | </span></b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#566C11">Mechanical Engineer, Energy Analyst</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">
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</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Licensed in KS.</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Sharad Kumar [<a href="mailto:sharadcapricious@gmail.com">mailto:sharadcapricious@gmail.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 18, 2015 1:24 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Is it possible to disable PSZ heat pump hot gas reheat dehumidification and enable PSZ electric coil dehumidification?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:blue">Hi Kathryn,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:blue">As per me there is no system such as heat pump hot gas reheat de-humidification system.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:blue">The de-humidification system mainly consists of a cooling system (cooling coil) which can form condensate to reduce the moisture content of air and segregate it from air.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:blue">In your case the gas reheat de-humidification can be considered as electrical coil humidifier which can bring good enough savings.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:blue">In the electric coil humidification the heat source for latent heat of vaporization is electricity or in case of furnace, gas or fuel is the source of heat for water to be vaporized and so on.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:blue">Thanks,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:blue">Sharad.Kumar.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:blue">Green Horizon Consulting LLP</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:blue">Gurgaon</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:blue">India</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 1:31 AM, <<a href="mailto:equest-users-request@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-request@lists.onebuilding.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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Today's Topics:<br>
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1. Is it possible to disable PSZ heat pump hot gas reheat<br>
dehumidification and enable PSZ electric coil dehumidification?<br>
(Kathryn Kerns)<br>
<br>
<br>
---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>
From: Kathryn Kerns <<a href="mailto:kathryn.kerns@bceengineers.com">kathryn.kerns@bceengineers.com</a>><br>
To: "<a href="mailto:Marlin.Addison@asu.edu">Marlin.Addison@asu.edu</a>" <<a href="mailto:Marlin.Addison@asu.edu">Marlin.Addison@asu.edu</a>>, "<a href="mailto:kevinm@madisonengineeringps.com">kevinm@madisonengineeringps.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:kevinm@madisonengineeringps.com">kevinm@madisonengineeringps.com</a>>,
Jeff Hirsch <<a href="mailto:Jeff.Hirsch@doe2.com">Jeff.Hirsch@doe2.com</a>><br>
Cc: "<a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a>>, Chris Caffee <<a href="mailto:chris.caffee@bceengineers.com">chris.caffee@bceengineers.com</a>><br>
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 18:49:34 +0000<br>
Subject: [Equest-users] Is it possible to disable PSZ heat pump hot gas reheat dehumidification and enable PSZ electric coil dehumidification?<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Everyone, does anyone know of a way to disable PSZ heat pump hot gas reheat dehumidification (at least I think that is what the extra heating energy represents) and enable electric
coil dehumidification reheat? Most of my LEED baseline heat pump energy models with dehumidification usually have thermal blocks HVAC units that fall into the ASHRAE 90.1-2007 section 6.5.2.3 exception b and c categories, which allows the standard dehumidification
simultaneous heating and cooling cycle. I am missing out on energy savings.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Kathryn Kerns</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Systems Specialist</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
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