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--></style></head><body lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#002060">Further to Jeff’s suggestions: if you determine it is not necessary to simulate interior walls AT ALL between the shells (and this is a totally valid conclusion for many situations), you could very simply proceed with a plan to, as soon as you are done with wizard-level edits, delete the resulting “sandwiched” exterior surfaces from the component tree, first thing. No walls defined is the exact same effect in the simulation as defining one or more adiabatic walls, excepting there will also no longer be any thermal mass to retain heat between the hours as would occur with a layered adiabatic construction. </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#002060"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#002060">On the aside & from a teaching perspective, that’s the first time I’ve come across the resistor / resistor+capacitor analogy to describe surface type behavior – I like it!</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#002060"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#002060">As to zoning resolution, I like to think of this issue as striking a balance of being <u>intelligent</u> enough to define the minimum # of zones as you will need, and <u>wise</u> enough to combine zones to the extent it won’t make a difference. In practice, my comfort margin for zoning simplifications shrinks the earlier simulations are engaged to inform design. For my earliest schematic/planning phase explorations, I find myself weighing whether to start with a high-resolution model (which will have the flexibility to carry forward with any number of necessary system types and zonal distinctions), or else to plan for a single or series of quickly generated basic/simplified models which I’ll be comfortable ditching when it comes time to develop a higher resolution, “whole-picture” study. Where I land on that call depends and varies by building, by the team of designers you’re working with, by gaging how much thought/effort the design team places before design development, and of course by the time I have available to provide the best set of guidance/answers. </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#002060"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#002060">Related food for thought: </span></p><p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><span style="color:#002060"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">-<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><span style="color:#002060">For projects requiring detailed documentation later, it’s also worth considering a minute saved during simulations in design (by combining similar zones) may require ten minutes when it comes time to document and explain how the various inputs correctly add up for a multi-zonal system.</span></p><p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><span style="color:#002060"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">-<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><span style="color:#002060">It may also be helpful to recognize that with experience, your time-efficiency for defining geometries in eQuest (or any program) will be honed. At some point, the extra time required to define twice as many zones as the minimum may not be a big deal in the scheme of things. </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#002060"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#002060">~Nick</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#002060"> </span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#002060">NICK CATON, P.E.</span></b><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><br></span><b><span style="color:#561782">Owner</span></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:#561782"> </span></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#561782">Caton Energy Consulting</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black"><br></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#1f497d"> 603 N Ferrel</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#1f497d"> Olathe, KS 66061</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#1f497d"> office: 785.410.3317</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#561782"><a href="www.catonenergy.com"><span style="color:#561782">www.catonenergy.com</span></a></span><span style="color:#002060"></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#002060"> </span></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Jeff Haberl [mailto:<a href="mailto:jhaberl@tamu.edu">jhaberl@tamu.edu</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, July 18, 2015 12:02 PM<br><b>To:</b> Nicholas Caton; David Griffin II; <a href="mailto:bfountain@greensim.com">bfountain@greensim.com</a>; Daniel Caporizzo; <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] Interior Walls show up as Exterior Walls</p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><div><p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">Dan,</span></p><p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"> </span></p><p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">One thing to also consider is whether or not you need the interior walls in the first place since these are basically resistors (i.e., wall = U-VALUE) or resistor-capacitors (i.e., wall = LAYERED) between two thermal zones. In addition, you need to consider if the different thermal zones have different interior temperature settings, as only in this case the interior walls begin to play a role in the thermal simulation. </span></p><p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"> </span></p><p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">In general, EQUEST and other simulation programs tend to use 5 zones in a model: i.e., N, E, S, W and core zone. However, a review of the literature seems to indicate that there have been very few definitive studies that have answered the question: Why 5 zones versus 2 (i.e., core and perimeter), or 9 zones versus 5 zones, etc.? or What about opaque walls versus windows versus slab on grade? or What about thermostat settings? This last question is critical to understanding how newer systems are impacting energy efficiency as we move towards thermostats with motion sensors and individual zone systems (i.e., VRF or mini-splits). </span></p><p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"> </span></p><p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">Furthermore, to make things worse, some vendors are moving towards "robo-zoning", without providing a basis for the "robo". So, long-story-short, unless you are doing something fancy try one zone, then two, then five, then nine. Unfortunately, to do this you'll have to dump out the BDL from your first run with the Wizard, then edit and rerun with the DOE2.2 engine, since EQUEST has built-in assumptions about zoning that are adding unnecessary zones to the model (i.e., if the thermostat settings are the same).</span></p><p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"> </span></p><p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">Jeff </span></p><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"> </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:blue">8=! 8=) :=) 8=) ;=) 8=) 8=( 8=) 8=() 8=) 8=| 8=) :=') 8=) 8=?<br>Jeff S. Haberl, Ph.D.,P.E.inactive,FASHRAE,FIBPSA,......<a href="mailto:........jhaberl@tamu.edu">jhaberl@tamu.edu</a><br>Professor........................................................................Office Ph: 979-845-6507<br>Department of Architecture............................................Lab Ph:979-845-6065<br>Energy Systems Laboratory...........................................FAX: 979-862-2457<br>Texas A&M University...................................................77843-3581<br>College Station, Texas, USA, 77843.............................<a href="http://esl.tamu.edu">http://esl.tamu.edu</a><br>8=/ 8=) :=) 8=) ;=) 8=) 8=() 8=) :=) 8=) 8=! 8=) 8=? 8=) 8=0</span></p></div></div></div><div><div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black"><hr size="2" width="100%" align="center"></span></div><div id="divRpF633173"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"> Equest-users [<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] on behalf of Nicholas Caton [<a href="mailto:ncaton@catonenergy.com">ncaton@catonenergy.com</a>]<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, July 18, 2015 12:09 AM<br><b>To:</b> David Griffin II; <a href="mailto:bfountain@greensim.com">bfountain@greensim.com</a>; Daniel Caporizzo; <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Interior Walls show up as Exterior Walls</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black"></span></p></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#002060">The “plan north” trick looks to get the job done after a quick check in this case. I can think of a few more tips to add to the pot so long as we’re contributing:</span><span style="color:black"></span></p><p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in"><span style="color:#002060">1.</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#002060"> </span><span style="color:#002060">You can right click the bold perimeter lines in plan view of wizard screen 2 for each shell, manually telling eQuest to make individual walls adiabatic (an interior type you can later assign thermal ties with if desired)</span><span style="color:black"></span></p><p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in"><span style="color:#002060">2.</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#002060"> </span><span style="color:#002060">When you have two shells meet with walls of varying perimeter length, I have found it a good practice to generate “extra” vertices in the shell with the longer wall, so that the shell with the shorter wall can lock its vertices directly to the first. </span><span style="color:black"></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#002060">NICK CATON, P.E.</span></b><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><br></span><b><span style="color:#561782">Owner</span></b><span style="color:black"></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#561782">Caton Energy Consulting</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black"><br></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#1f497d"> 603 N Ferrel</span><span style="color:black"></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#1f497d"> Olathe, KS 66061</span><span style="color:black"></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#1f497d"> office: 785.410.3317</span><span style="color:black"></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#561782"><a href="https://teesmail.tees.tamus.edu/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx" target="_blank"><span style="color:#561782">www.catonenergy.com</span></a></span><span style="color:black"></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:black">From:</span></b><span style="color:black"> Equest-users [mailto:<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>David Griffin II<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 15, 2015 4:39 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:bfountain@greensim.com" target="_blank">bfountain@greensim.com</a>; 'Daniel Caporizzo'; <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Interior Walls show up as Exterior Walls</span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><a name="_MailEndCompose"><span style="color:#1f497d">Dan,</span></a><span style="color:black"></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">If Brian’s solution does not work, you can try an approach I’ve used in previous versions of eQUEST.</span><span style="color:black"></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">In the Wizard under the Custom Zoning Pattern, offset the interiors walls that are showing up as exterior by ~1’-0” from the edge of the footprint.</span><span style="color:black"></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">This should make the walls interior rather than exterior, and since DOE2 uses area of geometry to calculate things, it should not affect the accuracy of your model.</span><span style="color:black"></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">Let me know how it goes.</span><span style="color:black"></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">Sincerely,</span><span style="color:black"></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span></p><table class="MsoNormalTable" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="100%" style="width:100.0%"><tr><td width="80" valign="top" style="width:60.0pt;padding:0in 9.75pt 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://www.archnexus.com/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;text-decoration:none"><img border="0" width="80" height="99" id="_x0000_i1031" src="http://www.stationerycentral.com/SignatureImages10/ArchNexus-logo-80x99.png" alt="ARCH | NEXUS"></span></a></p></td><td width="1" valign="top" style="width:.75pt;border:none;border-left:solid #009ad9 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></p></td><td style="padding:0in 0in 0in 6.75pt"><table class="MsoNormalTable" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="100%" style="width:100.0%"><tr><td colspan="2" style="padding:0in 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#52616e">DAVID W. GRIFFIN II</span></p></td></tr><tr><td colspan="2" style="padding:4.5pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#52616e">BEMP<br>ENERGY ANALYST</span></p></td></tr><tr><td colspan="2" style="padding:4.5pt 0in 4.5pt 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#52616e">2505 E Parleys Way<br>Salt Lake City, UT 84109 </span></p></td></tr><tr><td width="100%" nowrap style="width:100.0%;padding:0in 0in 0in 2.25pt"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#52616e">Office</span></b><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#52616e"> 801.924.5028 </span></p></td><td style="padding:0in 0in 0in 0in"></td></tr><tr><td nowrap colspan="2" style="padding:4.5pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#52616e"><a href="http://www.archnexus.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:#52616e;text-decoration:none">archnexus.com</span></a></span></p></td></tr><tr><td nowrap colspan="2" style="padding:4.5pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://twitter.com/arch_nexus" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;text-decoration:none"><img border="0" width="29" height="22" id="_x0000_i1030" src="http://www.stationerycentral.com/SignatureImages10/ArchNexus-tw-sharp-L-29x22.png" alt="Twitter"></span></a><a href="https://www.facebook.com/pages/Architectural-Nexus/179588705397563?ref=ts&fref=ts" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;text-decoration:none"><img border="0" width="29" height="22" id="_x0000_i1029" src="http://www.stationerycentral.com/SignatureImages10/ArchNexus-fb-sharp-L-29x22.png" alt="Facebook"></span></a><a href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYRPWKF-yp-AUiI8ia2XfKw?feature=mhee" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;text-decoration:none"><img border="0" width="29" height="22" id="_x0000_i1028" src="http://www.stationerycentral.com/SignatureImages10/ArchNexus-yt-sharp-L-29x22.png" alt="Youtube"></span></a><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/company/architectural-nexus" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;text-decoration:none"><img border="0" width="29" height="22" id="_x0000_i1027" src="http://www.stationerycentral.com/SignatureImages10/ArchNexus-li-sharp-L-29x22.png" alt="LinkedIn"></span></a></p></td></tr></table></td></tr></table><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:black">From:</span></b><span style="color:black"> <a href="mailto:bfountain@greensim.com" target="_blank">bfountain@greensim.com</a> [<a href="mailto:bfountain@greensim.com" target="_blank">mailto:bfountain@greensim.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 15, 2015 11:21 AM<br><b>To:</b> 'Daniel Caporizzo'; <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Interior Walls show up as Exterior Walls</span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="color:#1f497d">I recommend leaving “Plan North” on DD wizard screen 2 as North – then setting the azimuth as required in detailed edit mode. With Plan North as North, I find eQUEST does a good job of creating appropriate exterior and interior walls for adjacent shells. However when the building is rotated in the wizard, what you describe (all exterior walls) has happened to me as well.</span><span style="color:black"></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="color:#1f497d">I hope this resolves your issue.</span><span style="color:black"></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><img border="0" width="770" height="574" id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image001.png@01D0C230.B8D1A470" alt="cid:image001.png@01D0C230.B8D1A470"></span><span style="color:black"></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="color:#1f497d">Brian</span><span style="color:black"></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"> Equest-users [<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Daniel Caporizzo<br><b>Sent:</b> July-15-15 1:09 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] Interior Walls show up as Exterior Walls</span><span style="color:black"></span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Hi everyone,</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">I am working on an energy model for an office building (see attached pd2 and inp files), in eQuest v3.65. </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">My problem is that when I create the shells and zones, all of the walls touching adjacent shells/zones show up as exterior walls instead of interior walls.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">This is a particular problem on all of the “1F” shells in the model, which should have interior walls when the shells connect. I am using the default zones right now while the architect works on updating the room layout. I don’t know if it is just a setting I have unchecked but in the past this has only been an isolated problem (i.e. couple of walls for the whole job) rather than the entire project. I am still in the Wizard Data Edit mode phase of the model, and even though I can fix this manually in Detailed Edit Mode (by creating interior walls in the same location) I’d like to fix it in the wizard…which will definitely save me time in the long run. </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Has anyone had this problem before?</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Thanks,</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Dan</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span></p></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>