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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I would not use a flat curve for the baseline boiler because the baseline boiler is “natural draft” (G3.1.2.2), and natural draft boilers do not operate at full load efficiency at part load conditions. I think the safest approach is to use part load boiler performance curves from COMNET Modeling Guide p.201 (copied below and found at <a href="http://www.comnet.org/mgp/content/boilers?purpose=0">http://www.comnet.org/mgp/content/boilers?purpose=0</a>). This resource is directly referenced by USGBC as the source for modeling assumptions <a href="http://www.usgbc.org/resources/comnet-commercial-buildings-energy-modeling-guidelines">http://www.usgbc.org/resources/comnet-commercial-buildings-energy-modeling-guidelines</a>. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><img border=0 width=640 height=103 id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image005.jpg@01D0979C.FCFF5A70"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><img border=0 width=638 height=416 id="Picture_x0020_2" src="cid:image009.jpg@01D0979C.FCFF5A70"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>As far as SEER to EER and HSPF to COP conversions, 90.1 2013 finally provided these in G3.1.2.1, along with the formulas for extracting fan power from efficiency ratings: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPS-BoldMT","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPS-BoldMT","serif"'>G3.1.2.1 Equipment Efficiencies. </span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif"'>All HVAC equipment<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif"'>in the baseline building design shall be modeled at the mini-<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif"'>mum efficiency levels, both part load and full load, in accordance<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif"'>with Section 6.4. Chillers shall use Path A efficiencies<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif"'>as shown in Table 6.8.1-3 where efficiency ratings include<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif"'>supply fan energy, the efficiency rating shall be adjusted to<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif"'>remove the supply fan energy. For Baseline HVAC Systems 1,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif"'>2, 3, 4, 5, and 6, calculate the minimum COP</span><i><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPS-ItalicMT","serif"'>nfcooling </span></i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif"'>and<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif"'>COP</span><i><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPS-ItalicMT","serif"'>nfheating </span></i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif"'>using the equation for the applicable performance<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif"'>rating as indicated in Tables 6.8.1-1 through 6.8.1-4.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif"'>Where a full- and part-load efficiency rating is provided in<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif"'>Tables 6.8.1-1 through 6.8.1-4, the full-load equation below<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif"'>shall be used:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif";background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow'>COP</span><i><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPS-ItalicMT","serif";background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow'>nfcooling </span></i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif";background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow'>= 7.84E-8 × EER × </span><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPS-ItalicMT","serif";background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow'>Q </span></i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif";background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow'>+ 0.338 × EER<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif";background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow'>COP</span><i><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPS-ItalicMT","serif";background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow'>nfcooling </span></i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif";background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow'>= –0.0076 × SEER</span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif";background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow'>2 </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif";background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow'>+ 0.3796 × SEER<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif";background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow'>COP</span><i><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPS-ItalicMT","serif";background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow'>nfheating </span></i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif";background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow'>= 1.48E-7 × COP</span><i><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPS-ItalicMT","serif";background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow'>47 </span></i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif";background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow'>× </span><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPS-ItalicMT","serif";background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow'>Q </span></i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif";background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow'>+ 1.062 × COP</span><i><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPS-ItalicMT","serif";background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow'>47<o:p></o:p></span></i></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif";background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow'>(applies to heat-pump heating efficiency only)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif";background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow'>COP</span><i><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPS-ItalicMT","serif";background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow'>nfheating </span></i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif";background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow'>= –0.0296 × HSPF</span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif";background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow'>2 </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif";background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow'>+ 0.7134 × HSPF</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif"'>where COP</span><i><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPS-ItalicMT","serif"'>nfcooling </span></i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif"'>and COP</span><i><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPS-ItalicMT","serif"'>nfheating </span></i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif"'>are the packaged HVAC<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif"'>equipment cooling and heating energy efficiency, respectively,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif"'>to be used in the baseline building, which excludes<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif"'>supply fan power, and </span><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPS-ItalicMT","serif"'>Q </span></i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif"'>is the AHRI-rated cooling capacity<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif"'>in Btu/h.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif"'>EER, SEER, COP, and HSPF shall be at AHRI test conditions.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif"'>Fan energy shall be modeled separately according to<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif"'>Section G3.1.2.10.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Hope this helps,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Maria<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>-- <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#666666'>Maria Karpman </span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#666666'>LEED AP, BEMP, CEM</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#666666'>________________</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#666666'>Karpman Consulting<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#666666'><a href="http://www.karpmanconsulting.net/"><span style='color:blue'>www.karpmanconsulting.net</span></a> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#666666'>Phone </span><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#666666;background:white'>860.430.1909 </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#666666'>41C New London Turnpike</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#666666'>Glastonbury, CT 06033</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Equest-users [mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Nicholas Caton<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 29, 2015 11:17 AM<br><b>To:</b> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"PMingLiU","serif"'>赵永青</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>; Equest-users<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MS UI Gothic","sans-serif"'>回复：</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>RE: </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MS UI Gothic","sans-serif"'>回复：</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MS UI Gothic","sans-serif"'>回复：</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>RE: Reply</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MS UI Gothic","sans-serif"'>：</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> The problem of minimum equipment efficiency requirement of Ashrae 90.1-2007<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Yeah same for my case (not AFUE), though that’s good thinking! </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>When I do have an AFUE boiler requirement, I have found it easier to stick with the default library curves / standby inputs & to determine the full load HIR with the following equations:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>HIR = f(AFUE): <i> [Reference: California Energy Commission's 2005 "Nonresidential Alternative Calculation Method (ACM) Approval Manual"]</i> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> For single packaged central furnace (baseline system #3): HIR = (.005163*AFUE+0.4033)^-1 </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> For Boilers where 75 ≤ AFUE < 80 (Baseline systems #1, #5 ): HIR = (0.1*AFUE+72.5)^-1*100 </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> For Boilers where 80 ≤ AFUE < 100 (Baseline systems #1, #5 ): HIR = (0.875*AFUE+10.5)^-1*100 </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>For completeness, here are the other equations I keep handy for converting other seasonal efficiencies to steady-state inputs:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>EER=f(SEER): <i>[Reference: NREL Building America House Simulation Protocol (Revised), citing Wassmer, M. (2003). A Component-Based Model for Residential Air Conditioner and Heat Pump Energy Calculations.]</i></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:.5in'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>(AC) (Baseline Systems #1, #3, #5 & #6): EER<sub>NET</sub>= -0.0182*SEER^2 + 1.1088*SEER</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:.5in'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>(HP-cooling) (Baseline Systems #2 & #4): EER<sub>NET</sub> = -0.02*SEER^2 + 1.1268*SEER</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>COP=f(HSPF): <i>[Reference: Wassmer, M. (2003). A Component-Based Model for Residential Air Conditioner and Heat Pump Energy Calculations. Masters Thesis, University of Colorado at Boulder.]</i></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:.5in'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>(HP-heating) (Baseline Systems #2 & #4): COP<sub>NET</sub> = -0.0255*HSPF^2 + 0.6239*HSPF</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>IIRC, each of the above cited references determines these equations based on a survey of real-world equipment from various manufacturers in order to plot a quadratic trendline. That trendline establishes the relationship between steady state full load efficiency and the associated seasonal efficiency rating. In time (or until such equations are added to Appendix G to regulate how modelers approach seasonal efficiency requirements), it may be appropriate to seek out similar research to update these equations every so often, but for the present and past couple of years I have had zero problems using this family of equations for my LEED reviews.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>~Nick</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>NICK CATON, P.E.</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><br></span><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#561782'>Owner</span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#561782'> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#561782'>Caton Energy Consulting</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> 1150 N. 192<sup>nd</sup> St., #4-202</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> Shoreline, WA 98133<br> office: 785.410.3317</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#561782'><a href="www.catonenergy.com"><span style='color:#561782'>www.catonenergy.com</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> Equest-users [mailto:<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>???<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, May 25, 2015 6:24 AM<br><b>To:</b> Equest-users<br><b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] </span><span lang=ZH-CN style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>回复：</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>RE: </span><span lang=ZH-CN style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>回复：</span><span lang=ZH-CN style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'> </span><span lang=ZH-CN style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>回复：</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>RE: Reply</span><span lang=ZH-CN style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>：</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> The problem of minimum equipment efficiency requirement of Ashrae 90.1-2007</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I also find the definition of AFUE in manual , but the boiler capacity of my project( a very big project) is larger than 88kW, So the efficiency of boiler should be 80%(Ec),not 80%(AFUE).<br><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial Narrow","sans-serif";color:#909090'>------------------</span><br><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#3366FF'>Yongqing Zhao</span></i><br><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#006600'>Changsha Green Building & Energy Saving Technology CO.,LTD</span></i><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#3366FF'>NO.438,Shaoshan Road,Changsha,Hunan,China</span><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#3366FF'>Telephone:13574805636</span><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#3366FF'><a href="mailto:Email%3Azhaoyongqing1987@126.com">Email:zhaoyongqing1987@126.com</a></span><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:503271081@qq.com">503271081@qq.com</a> </span><br> <br><br><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial Narrow","sans-serif"'>------------------ </span><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MS Mincho";mso-fareast-language:JA'>原始</span><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Microsoft JhengHei","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:JA'>邮</span><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MS Mincho";mso-fareast-language:JA'>件</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial Narrow","sans-serif"'> ------------------</span><br><b><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Microsoft JhengHei","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:JA'>发</span></b><b><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MS Mincho";mso-fareast-language:JA'>件人</span></b><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> "Lapierre, Patrick";<<a href="mailto:plapierre@bpa.ca">plapierre@bpa.ca</a>>;</span><br><b><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Microsoft JhengHei","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:JA'>发</span></b><b><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MS Mincho";mso-fareast-language:JA'>送</span></b><b><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Microsoft JhengHei","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:JA'>时间</span></b><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> 2015</span><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MS Mincho";mso-fareast-language:JA'>年</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>5</span><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MS Mincho";mso-fareast-language:JA'>月</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>25</span><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MS Mincho";mso-fareast-language:JA'>日</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>(</span><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MS Mincho";mso-fareast-language:JA'>星期一</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>) </span><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MS Mincho";mso-fareast-language:JA'>晚上</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>8:23</span><br><b><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MS Mincho";mso-fareast-language:JA'>收件人</span></b><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> "</span><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Microsoft JhengHei","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:JA'>赵</span><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MS Mincho";mso-fareast-language:JA'>永青</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>"<<a href="mailto:503271081@qq.com">503271081@qq.com</a>>; "Daniel Knapp"<<a href="mailto:danielk@arborus.ca">danielk@arborus.ca</a>>; "Nicholas Caton"<<a href="mailto:ncaton@catonenergy.com">ncaton@catonenergy.com</a>>; </span><br><b><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MS Mincho";mso-fareast-language:JA'>抄送</span></b><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> "<a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding">equest-users@lists.onebuilding</a>"<<a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a>>; </span><br><b><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MS Mincho";mso-fareast-language:JA'>主</span></b><b><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Microsoft JhengHei","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:JA'>题</span></b><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> RE: [Equest-users] </span><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MS Mincho";mso-fareast-language:JA'>回复：</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MS Mincho";mso-fareast-language:JA'>回复：</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>RE: Reply</span><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MS Mincho";mso-fareast-language:JA'>：</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> The problem of minimum equipment efficiency requirement of Ashrae 90.1-2007</span><br><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>I agree with Nick that removing the default start-up times in the baseline seems inappropriate and that it should also be done in the proposed design if done in the reference (when the baseline performance is based on <i>E<sub>t</sub></i>)</span><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>I didn’t see any model attached so I couldn’t check but could it be possible the boiler size falls into the smaller category of table 6.8.1F where it’s efficiency is defined as 80% AFUE? The comment of the reviewer would make much more sense if it was the case, since <i>80% AFUE</i> is different from <i>80% E<sub>t</sub></i>. In my understanding, 80% AFUE refers to a global annual efficiency of 80% and 80% E<sub>t</sub> refers to 80% efficiency at peak load which would result in a global annual efficiency lower than 80% when you consider part loads and boiler cycling.</span><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>I would deem as correct the reviewer’s comment if the boiler size falls into the 80% AFUE category.</span><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>“</span>The AFUE differs from the true 'thermal efficiency' in that it is not a steady-state, peak measure of conversion efficiency, but instead attempts to represent the actual, season-long, average efficiency of that piece of equipment, including the operating transients.<sup><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>[1] </span></sup><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>“</span><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>1<b>^</b> Systems and Equipment volume of the <i>ASHRAE Handbook</i>, ASHRAE, Inc., Atlanta, GA, USA, 2004</span><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>However, if your boiler size falls into the <i>E<sub>t</sub></i> or <i>E<sub>c </sub></i> category then, as everyone else here, I find the comment somewhat strange. </span><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#366092'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#366092'><img border=0 width=34 height=31 id="_x0000_i1025" src="cid:image001.jpg@01D09799.EA5B5930"></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#3F3F3F'>Patrick</span></b><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#366092'> </span></b><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#3F3F3F'>Lapierre</span></b><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#7D7D7D'>_ing.</span></b><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#A5A5A5'><a href="mailto:plapierre@bpa.ca">plapierre@bpa.ca</a></span><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#BFBFBF'> </span><br><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>De :</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> Equest-users [<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>De la part de</b> ???</span><br><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Envoyé :</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> 24 mai 2015 20:42</span><br><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>À :</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> Daniel Knapp; Nicholas Caton</span><br><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Cc :</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding">equest-users@lists.onebuilding</a></span><br><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Objet :</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> [Equest-users] </span><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:JA'>回复：</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:JA'>回复：</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>RE: Reply</span><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:JA'>：</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> The problem of minimum equipment efficiency requirement of Ashrae 90.1-2007</span><br> <br>Hi,Dan<br> <br>The comment is a full version,no context missing!I also feel very strange with it.<br> <br> <br> <br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#909090'>------------------</span><br><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#3366FF'>Yongqing Zhao</span></i><br><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#006600'>Changsha Green Building & Energy Saving Technology CO.,LTD</span></i><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#3366FF'>NO.438,Shaoshan Road,Changsha,Hunan,China</span><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#3366FF'>Telephone:13574805636</span><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#3366FF'><a href="mailto:Email%3Azhaoyongqing1987@126.com">Email:zhaoyongqing1987@126.com</a></span><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'> </span><a href="mailto:503271081@qq.com"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>503271081@qq.com</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'> </span><br> <br> <br> <br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>------------------ </span><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:JA'>原始邮件</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> ------------------</span><br><b><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:JA'>发件人</span></b><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> "Daniel Knapp";<</span><a href="mailto:danielk@arborus.ca"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>danielk@arborus.ca</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>;</span><br><b><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:JA'>发送时间</span></b><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> 2015</span><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:JA'>年</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>5</span><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:JA'>月</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>25</span><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:JA'>日</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>(</span><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:JA'>星期一</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>) </span><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:JA'>凌晨</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>1:34</span><br><b><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:JA'>收件人</span></b><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> "Nicholas Caton"<</span><a href="mailto:ncaton@catonenergy.com"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>ncaton@catonenergy.com</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>; </span><br><b><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:JA'>抄送</span></b><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> "</span><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:JA'>赵永青</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>"<</span><a href="mailto:zhaoyongqing1987@qq.com"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>zhaoyongqing1987@qq.com</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>; "Julien Marrec"<</span><a href="mailto:julien.marrec@gmail.com"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>julien.marrec@gmail.com</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>; "</span><a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>equest-users@lists.onebuilding</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>"<</span><a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>; </span><br><b><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:JA'>主题</span></b><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> Re: [Equest-users] </span><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:JA'>回复：</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>RE: Reply</span><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:JA'>：</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> The problem of minimum equipment efficiency requirement of Ashrae 90.1-2007</span><br> <br>I'm with Nick. I find the GBCI reviewer comment as reported to be a bit strange and I wonder if there is some context missing. Is it possible that the seasonal efficiency was much lower than 80% in the baseline, suggesting either oversizing of the baseline boilers or a curve that is different from the proposed curve? <br> <br>Best,<br>Dan<br> <br>—<br>Sent from my phone<br><br>On May 24, 2015, at 11:38 AM, Nicholas Caton <<a href="mailto:ncaton@catonenergy.com">ncaton@catonenergy.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>I’m happy you are arriving at the same result, however to be clear I do not think the reviewer is correct to assert the prescribed efficiency is anything other than the full-load efficiency.</span><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Follow the cited Test Procedure CFR 431 led me to:</span><br><a href="https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/10/431.86"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/10/431.86</span></a><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span><br><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>“§ 431.86 (c) (3) (ii) Thermal Efficiency. Use the calculation procedure for the thermal efficiency test specified in Section 11.1 of the HI BTS-2000, Rev 06.07 (incorporated by reference, see§ 431.85).”</span></i><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>I then found the referenced HI standard here (PDF link): </span><a href="https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CB8QFjAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Flaw.resource.org%2Fpub%2Fus%2Fcfr%2Fibr%2F004%2Fhi.BTS-2000.2007.pdf&ei=R-dhVZr3FoffoASKxYC4Bw&usg=AFQjCNGb2HahzcO_Q-BftBzCugY5sPtifg&sig2=k1fojL9GcpjnN6T2fdzOug"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CB8QFjAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Flaw.resource.org%2Fpub%2Fus%2Fcfr%2Fibr%2F004%2Fhi.BTS-2000.2007.pdf&ei=R-dhVZr3FoffoASKxYC4Bw&usg=AFQjCNGb2HahzcO_Q-BftBzCugY5sPtifg&sig2=k1fojL9GcpjnN6T2fdzOug</span></a><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>In that standard, section 5 reads:</span><br><b>5.0 TYPES OF TESTS</b><br><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>5.1 </span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Thermal Efficiency Test</span><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Shall consist of a test point conducted at 100% ± 2% of the nameplate boiler input. The test shall</span><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>yield a complete accounting of the energy input in terms of output and losses.</span><br><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>5.2 </span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Combustion Efficiency Test</span><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Shall consist of a test point conducted at 100% ± 2% of the input to the boiler and shall yield an</span><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>accounting of energy input in terms of products of combustion only.</span><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>From this, it is clear Et and Ec as prescribed by 90.1 are only the efficiencies as measured at full load. The test procedures following under section 9 deliberately exclude the effects of warmup/standby (equipment is made to warm up and arrive at the mandated operating conditions prior to measurements).</span><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Section 11.1 of the standard prescribes all the calculations required, including Et = 100*QOUT / QIN , however the preceding sections makes clear we are in no way standardizing part load performance or warmup/standby performance.</span><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Rounding back to 90.1… section 6.4.1.1 further cements the notion (“packaged boilers” fall under 1992 EPACT):</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><img border=0 width=398 height=337 id="_x0000_i1026" src="cid:image002.png@01D09799.EA5B5930"><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>All this reinforces the point that 90.1 simply does not prescribe part load performance for baseline boilers. To perform a simulation in compliance with Appendix G the onus is upon the energy modeler to make reasonable, defensible assumptions on that front. I don’t see how forcing full-load efficiencies at all part-load conditions and removing standby/startup operation energies is more reasonable or reflects reality better than the defaults. </span><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>If this is a new GBCI position they plan to hard-line on, then I would speculate it would be equally fair (albeit far more unrealistic for condensing cases) to give your proposed boilers the same treatment… extra work for a step backwards from reality…?</span><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Thoughts?</span><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>~Nick</span><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span><br><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>NICK CATON, P.E.</span></b><br><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Owner</span></b><br><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span></b><br><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Caton Energy Consulting</span></b><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> 1150 N. 192<sup>nd</sup> St., #4-202</span><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> Shoreline, WA 98133</span><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> office: 785.410.3317</span><br><a href="http://www.catonenergy.com"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#561782'>www.catonenergy.com</span></a><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span><br><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:JA'>冷面寒枪</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> [mailto:</span><a href="mailto:zhaoyongqing1987@qq.com"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>zhaoyongqing1987@qq.com</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>] </span><br><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Sent:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> Sunday, May 24, 2015 7:13 AM</span><br><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>To:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> Nicholas Caton; Julien Marrec</span><br><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Cc:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span><a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>equest-users@lists.onebuilding</span></a><br><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Subject:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:JA'>回复：</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>RE: [Equest-users] Reply</span><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:JA'>：</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> The problem of minimum equipment efficiency requirement of Ashrae 90.1-2007</span><br> <br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Hi,Nick</span><br> <br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> Than you for your insight!</span><br> <br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> Except default curve and start up time, Min-Ratio also will result in discrepancy between annual equivalent HIR and nominal HIR. After I revised curve ,set start-time and Min-Ratio to 0,and hourly report and PS-C report indicate that the annual equivalent HIR is accord with nominal HIR</span><br> <br> <br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span><br> <br> <br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>------------------</span><br><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Yongqing Zhao</span></i><br><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Changsha Green Building & Energy Saving Technology CO.,LTD</span></i><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>NO.438,Shaoshan Road,Changsha,Hunan,China</span><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Telephone:13574805636</span><br><a href="mailto:Email%3Azhaoyongqing1987@126.com"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Email:zhaoyongqing1987@126.com</span></a><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span><a href="mailto:503271081@qq.com"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>503271081@qq.com</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span><br> <br> <br> <br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>------------------ </span><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:JA'>原始邮件</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> ------------------</span><br><b><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:JA'>发件人</span></b><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> "Nicholas Caton";<</span><a href="mailto:ncaton@catonenergy.com"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>ncaton@catonenergy.com</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>;</span><br><b><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:JA'>发送时间</span></b><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> 2015</span><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:JA'>年</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>5</span><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:JA'>月</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>24</span><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:JA'>日</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>(</span><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:JA'>星期天</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>) </span><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:JA'>晚上</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>9:53</span><br><b><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:JA'>收件人</span></b><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> "</span><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:JA'>赵永青</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>"<</span><a href="mailto:503271081@qq.com"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>503271081@qq.com</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>; "Julien Marrec"<</span><a href="mailto:julien.marrec@gmail.com"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>julien.marrec@gmail.com</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>; </span><br><b><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:JA'>抄送</span></b><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> "</span><a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>equest-users@lists.onebuilding</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>"<</span><a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>; </span><br><b><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:JA'>主题</span></b><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> RE: [Equest-users] Reply</span><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:JA'>：</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> The problem of minimum equipment efficiency requirement of Ashrae 90.1-2007</span><br> <br>I received some similar review language very recently suggesting 80% efficiency is expected at all/most part load conditions for the baseline boiler…. Similar context in that case with the boiler rarely operating near full load.<br> <br>My comment has other issues that would cloud the topic at-hand, but here is truncated version:<br> <br>“…Furthermore, the average boiler efficiencies in the Baseline PS-C output reports, calculated by dividing the boiler energy consumption by the annual boiler heating energy generated was… [approximately 5% lower than the nominal efficiency input & documented]. Revise the baseline boiler efficiency to 80% and revise the boiler curve for the Baseline case as necessary to have an average efficiency that is near 80%. Provide updated PS-C reports for the Baseline confirming that the average baseline efficiency is near 80%.”<br> <br>This is the first time I have run into commentary checking up on PS-C’s output at all, and I’m using the same library curves as always for typical baseline boilers. <br> <br>I believe the PS-C discrepancy is explained both by the non-flat library curve and by the boiler’s default start-up loads, in combination.<br> <br>Here is the default library curve – it is (roughly, but not quite) linear:<br><image002.png><br><image003.png><br> <br>[For those unfamiliar, the Y-axis is a unitless multiplier] <br> <br>If I’m not mistaken, this curve serves double-duty: it simultaneously applies the hourly PLR to the full capacity (as either input or auto-sized) and also accounts for increased HIR (lower efficiency) as the PLR drops. My understanding in equation form:<br>Energy Consumed (for the hour) = (Boiler full capacity as input/autosized) * (Boiler nominal HIR input @ full load) * HIRf(PLR)<br> <br>If all of that is true, a perfectly “flat efficiency” curve, returning your nominal input HIR at all efficiencies, would therefore be Z = X. That’s plotted above for reference with a light/thin line. <br> <br>Even with such a “flat efficiency” curve applied to a test-case, PS-C’s outputs still suggest an annual equivalent HIR higher than the nominal input. Zeroing out the startup/standby inputs as well is required to get PS-C to report your nominal HIR = annual fuel / annual load:<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><img border=0 width=585 height=179 id="_x0000_i1027" src="cid:image003.png@01D09799.EA5B5930"><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><br> <br>I think the correct response (which perhaps I’ve mostly composed above) is to demonstrate the causes (library curve shape, startup/standby defaults), and to assert these are all appropriately applied to the baseline boiler, though <u>none of this is regulated by 90.1</u> to the best of my knowledge so it might be relatively shaky territory. <br> <br>I would wager 90% of all eQuest baseline boilers submitted to GBCI to date probably don’t mess with the library curves or standby/startup inputs, but that’s pure speculation on my part.<br> <br>Has anybody ever tried to explain/justify the default boiler curve and default startup/standby inputs? Do we know where those defaults come from?<br> <br>~Nick<br> <br><b>NICK CATON, P.E.</b><br><b>Owner</b><br><b> </b><br><b>Caton Energy Consulting</b><br> 1150 N. 192<sup>nd</sup> St., #4-202<br> Shoreline, WA 98133<br> office: 785.410.3317<br><a href="http://www.catonenergy.com/"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#561782'>www.catonenergy.com</span></a><br> <br><b>From:</b> Equest-users [mailto:<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>???<br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, May 24, 2015 5:34 AM<br><b>To:</b> Julien Marrec<br><b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding">equest-users@lists.onebuilding</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] Reply<span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:JA'>：</span> The problem of minimum equipment efficiency requirement of Ashrae 90.1-2007<br> <br>Hi,Julien <br> <br>I understand his meaning is keep a constant efficiency and I know the flat efficiency in equest is a curve that is y=x, but I can't confirm if a constant efficiency is Ashrae 90.1-2007's original intent.<br> <br>------------------<br><i>Yongqing Zhao</i><br><i>Changsha Green Building & Energy Saving Technology CO.,LTD</i><br>NO.438,Shaoshan Road,Changsha,Hunan,China<br>Telephone:13574805636<br><a href="mailto:Email%3Azhaoyongqing1987@126.com">Email:zhaoyongqing1987@126.com</a><br> <a href="mailto:503271081@qq.com">503271081@qq.com</a> <br> <br> <br> <br>------------------ <span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:JA'>原始邮件</span> ------------------<br><b><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:JA'>发件人</span></b><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> "Julien Marrec";<</span><a href="mailto:julien.marrec@gmail.com"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>julien.marrec@gmail.com</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>;</span><br><b><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:JA'>发送时间</span></b><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> 2015</span><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:JA'>年</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>5</span><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:JA'>月</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>24</span><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:JA'>日</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>(</span><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:JA'>星期天</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>) </span><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:JA'>晚上</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>8:19</span><br><b><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:JA'>收件人</span></b><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> "</span><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:JA'>赵永青</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>"<</span><a href="mailto:503271081@qq.com"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>503271081@qq.com</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>; </span><br><b><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:JA'>抄送</span></b><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> "</span><a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>equest-users@lists.onebuilding</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>"<</span><a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>>; </span><br><b><span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:JA'>主题</span></b><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> Re: [Equest-users] The problem of minimum equipment efficiency requirement of Ashrae 90.1-2007</span><br> <br>Hey,<br> <br>He's saying that you need to make sure that the curve boiler-fPLR gives you a constant efficiency. As far as I remember, the default atmospheric curve from equest is like this.<br>Don't be confused by "flat". A flat efficiency curve is when you plot efficiency=f(PLR). In equest, it should be a curve that is y=x<br> <br>Look at the curve you used.<br> <br>Best,<br>Julien<br><br>Envoyé de mon iPhone<br><br>Le 24 mai 2015 à 11:27, "<span lang=JA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:JA'>赵永青</span>" <<a href="mailto:503271081@qq.com">503271081@qq.com</a>> a écrit :<o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal>I get the energy model comments from LEED reviewer as following:<br> <br>The narrative response indicates that the Baseline boiler has been modeled utilizing operating performance curves and a boiler HIR of 1.25. However, since the boiler operation HIR is based on the performance curves, the HIR is less than 1.25 in the part-load condition, which is inappropriate. Revise the Baseline boilers to include a flat efficiency of 80% for all part-loads. Provide eQuest input files or screen shots verifying the boiler efficiency has been modeled as required.<br> <<a href="mailto:545E22AD@FA528147.9F996155">545E22AD@FA528147.9F996155</a>><br>However, I can not understand it very much. The minimum equipment efficiency requirement(80 % Et) of Ashrae 90.1-2007 should be base on full load condition.Why the LEED reviewer raise such a question?Any insight is appreciate!!<br> <br>Thanks<br>------------------<br><i>Yongqing Zhao</i><br><i>Changsha Green Building & Energy Saving Technology CO.,LTD</i><br>NO.438,Shaoshan Road,Changsha,Hunan,China<br>Telephone:13574805636<br>Email:zhaoyongqing1987@<a href="http://126.com/">126.com</a><br> <a href="mailto:503271081@qq.com">503271081@qq.com</a> <br> <o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>Equest-users mailing list<br><a href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org</a><br>To unsubscribe from this mailing list send a blank message to <a href="mailto:EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG">EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>Equest-users mailing list<br><a href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org</a><br>To unsubscribe from this mailing list send a blank message to <a href="mailto:EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG">EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><hr size=1 width="100%" noshade style='color:#A0A0A0' align=center></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>No virus found in this message.<br>Checked by AVG - <a href="http://www.avg.com">www.avg.com</a><br>Version: 2014.0.4800 / Virus Database: 4311/9832 - Release Date: 05/21/15<o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>