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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I agree: a 2-surface gable roof shape as John is demonstrating is likely sufficient for most contexts (screenshot per John’s model):
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><img width="878" height="478" id="Picture_x0020_2" src="cid:image002.png@01CF51B7.47F83E70"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">In any case, if you wanted to go further in detail, I would start the same way, leveraging the wizards to get this far with the roof and to set up everything
else pertinent to your study prior to detailed mode edits. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">In detailed mode, you could most simply take this a bit further by correcting the two resulting surfaces’ area inputs to effect equivalent surface area for
the actual barrel shape. Before taking the effort of splitting this into additional strips (the next logical degree of “exactitude”), which would not be a small degree of effort, I would think well on what effects that would have relative to a 2-surface
approximation per above. As I’m seeing it, the differences are tied up in the barrel vault’s “self-shading” nature when the sun is at lower angles, and the magnitude of difference on loads between the above 2-facet approximation and a “higher resolution”
barrel with more facets (at least for such a shallow barrel shape) should be small-to-nonexistent, depending largely upon building orientation relative to the annual sun position. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">For the purposes of an exacting thermal study, and time allowing, I would concern myself first with the shading effects of surrounding buildings and equipment
(noting the adjacent screened rooftop equipment in one of the photos shared) – such elements could easily have a larger thermal impact on the roof’s loads, and potentially could make the roof’s shape a relatively moot point.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">If the purpose of your model isn’t to get nitty-gritty into the roof loads, for such a shallow barrel, I wouldn’t discount going the other direction and approximating
with a single flat roof surface (perhaps adjusting the roof area and space volume in detailed to compensate, as mentioned above).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Hope that helps!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">~Nick<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><img width="119" height="37" id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image001.jpg@01CF51B5.D18C3170" alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB"></span><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E">NICK CATON, P.E.<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#CC9900">SENIOR ENGINEER<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#CC9900"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E">Smith & Boucher Engineers</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;color:#CC9900"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E">25501 west valley parkway, suite 200<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E">olathe, ks 66061<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E">direct 913.344.0036<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E">fax 913.345.0617<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><a href="www.smithboucher.com" title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue">
</span></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>John Aulbach<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, April 05, 2014 4:10 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Jeff Haberl; Joe Huang<br>
<b>Cc:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Difficult roof<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Gentlemen:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">I sent Katia an example from the eQuest wizard for which I showed her on Screen 3 where the checkbox was for a peaked roof and the way you can change the angle.This is not the
Sydney Opera House roof, this can be energy corrected with a 5 or 10 degree tilt roof.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">John<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> Jeff Haberl <<a href="mailto:jhaberl@tamu.edu">jhaberl@tamu.edu</a>><br>
<b>To:</b> Joe Huang <<a href="mailto:yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com">yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com</a>>
<br>
<b>Cc:</b> "<a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a>>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, April 5, 2014 12:45 PM<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Difficult roof</span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">FYI. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">I think this is a waste of time for and opaque surface. Perhaps 2 or 3 surfaces will suffice as long as the area = the intended area. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">This problem was studied in ASHRAE RP1468 for windows. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Jeff<br>
<br>
Jeff S. Haberl, Ph.D., P.E., FASHRAE, FIBPSA <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span class="yiv8209357709apple-style-span"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Department of Architecture</span></span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Texas A&M University<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">College Station, Texas 77845-3581<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Office: 979-845-6507, Lab: 979-845-6065<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Fax: 970-862-2457,
<a href="mailto:jhaberl@tamu.edu" target="_blank">jhaberl@tamu.edu</a>, <a href="http://www.esl.tamu.edu/" target="_blank">http://www.esl.tamu.edu/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><br>
On Apr 5, 2014, at 2:40 PM, "Joe Huang" <<a href="mailto:yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com" target="_blank">yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Katia, John,<br>
<br>
I can see the attached two JPGs, so the pictures have been attached. Looking at them, the roof looks like a very shallow barrel vault. Since eQUEST or any other simulation program that I know of, accepts only planar surfaces, you will have to decompose the
roof into a number of strips running lengthwise. Since these strips will be skinny rectangles, they can be input either with WIDTH, HEIGHT, TILT, etc., or as POLYGONs. John has details on how that's done in eQUEST.<br>
<br>
Joe<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre style="background:white"><span style="color:black">Joe Huang<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><span style="color:black">White Box Technologies, Inc.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><span style="color:black">346 Rheem Blvd., Suite 108D<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><span style="color:black">Moraga CA 94556<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><span style="color:black"><a href="mailto:yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com" target="_blank">yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><span style="color:black"><a href="http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com/" target="_blank">http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com/</a> for simulation-ready weather data<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><span style="color:black">(o) (925)388-0265<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><span style="color:black">(c) (510)928-2683<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><span style="color:black">"building energy simulations at your fingertips"<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><br>
On 4/5/2014 8:59 AM, John Aulbach wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Katia:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Are you sure you attached the pictures. I dont see any attachment. I usually stay away from exotic roofs, unless a tilt is, say, in a major direction.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">If you really want to deal with it, you will need to create a polygon in the wall corrdinate system.for each roof section and spatially move them in the right direction using
the building coordinate system . This is all in the Detail Edit mode.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Do you understand the different coordinate systems? You can find the explanation in the DOE2.2 Help Menu.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">John R. Aulbach, PE<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> katia
<a href="mailto:katialattouf92@hotmail.com" target="_blank">mailto:katialattouf92@hotmail.com</a><br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
<a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, April 5, 2014 8:31 AM<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] Difficult roof</span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Dear equest-users,
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<br>
I am attaching two pictures of a location I am studying.<br>
<br>
I am facing difficulties in drawing the roof in eQuest using the pitched roof section.<br>
<br>
How can I do it?<br>
<br>
Thank you for help,<br>
<br>
KL<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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