<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,102)">Splendid work, Joe.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,102)">Thank you. Definitely I would like to have the contact for the ISHRAE person to get the current "typical year" weather files. Please inbox me his contact id. I appreciate your help, deeply.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,102)"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,102)">Now, taking the role of David explaining the "pre-RCx" in layman's way here is my weak-sauce reply. For this heritage building project, on the initial site visit we realized that the building lacks fresh air. It was one of the major EEMs, we figured. The building was almost 100 years old, made by the British when they ruled India. So we decided to bring the air-side economizer into the play. Before we suggest them EEMs including an economizer in this hot humid climate, hence to check the predicted savings, we did make "pre-RCx" simulation model considering the sensibility of the heritage building and its energy consuming components. So, we can establish our Cx agenda and tune up the savings more accurately.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,102)">Did it justify your <i>getting prepared</i> analogy defining the "pre-RCx"? :)</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,102)">
I guess making simulation model beforehand a Cx, RetroCx, Continuous Cx or Persistent Cx are NOT yet become mainstream practice and is still a matter of justification calculation of your billable hours and so on, in the US (at least within the firms I've worked with)! That said, fewer people use this; I believe and guess, there is nothing wrong to name a practice since the HVAC industry is "full" of acronyms and pseudo-acronyms (i.e. VRF & VRV)!</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,102)"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,102)">No pun intended, David, maybe we should patent this intellectual property "p-RCx" before anybody does it, right? :)</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,102)"><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div><font color="#000066" face="Georgia, serif"><i>~~~</i></font></div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;border-collapse:collapse"><i><font color="#000066" size="1"><span style="font-family:Georgia,serif">Texas</span><span style="font-family:Georgia,serif"> </span><span style="font-family:Georgia,serif">Aggie '10</span></font></i></span><div>
<span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;border-collapse:collapse"><span><span style="font-family:Georgia,serif"><i><font color="#000066" size="1">JU, Kolkata '05</font></i></span></span></span></div><div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;border-collapse:collapse"><span><span style="color:black;font-family:Georgia,serif"><i><font size="1">~~~</font></i></span></span></span></div>
<div><span style="border-collapse:collapse"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#ff0000" face="Arial, sans-serif" size="1"><b>
</b></font><p style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span style="color:red;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><font size="1"><strong>
</strong><strong>
</strong></font></span></p><font color="#ff0000" face="Arial, sans-serif" size="1"><b>
</b></font><p style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"></p><p style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><font color="#ff0000" face="Arial, sans-serif" size="1"><i>Try not to become a man of success, but rather try to become a man of value.</i><b> </b></font></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><font size="1"><font color="#ff0000" face="Arial, sans-serif">- </font><span style="color:rgb(255,0,0);font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Albert Einstein </span></font></p><div style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:15px">
<br></div><p></p></span></span></div></div>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 9:42 AM, Joe Huang <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com" target="_blank">yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div>Aru,<br>
<br>
Your multiple mention of the EPW Indian weather files all being
from 1990 finally stirred me to do some digging, since I've been
providing technical<br>
assistance to ISHRAE since 2007, first in improving the solar on
the first set of files for 58 Indian locations developed by ISHRAE
, and then in creating a totally new second set of files for 38
locations completed in 2011. <br>
<br>
I have checked the first set of ISHRAE weather files for 58
locations in India (these are the ones provided by ISHRAE to DOE
to put on the EnergyPlus Weather web site as EPWs), and yes those
all say 1990s for all months. However, the documentation dated
Sept. 1998 states that the raw data contain from 5 to 10 years of
historical data. So, it may very well be that these files may
actually contain months from different years, but I can't vouch
for that since that was done before my involvement.<br>
<br>
I do have a good memory on the second set of weather files, since
I was involved in their creation. Those are definitely "typical
year" files created from 15 years of data when available, but in a
few cases I settled for as few as 3 due to data scarcity. The key
point in the second set is that I calculated the solar radiation
against satellite-derived solar values that just became available
in 2010. The final files were provided to ISHRAE in early 2011,
but I have no information on their distribution or availability,
which is completely in their hands. If you're interested, I can
provide you with a contact person at ISHRAE.<div class=""><br>
<br>
Joe<br>
<br>
Joe Huang <br>
White Box Technologies, Inc.<br>
346 Rheem Blvd., Suite 108D<br>
Moraga CA 94556<br>
<a href="mailto:yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com" target="_blank">yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com</a><br>
<a href="http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com" target="_blank">http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com</a> for simulation-ready
weather data<br>
<a href="http://www.whiteboxtechnologies.com" target="_blank">http://www.whiteboxtechnologies.com</a><br>
(o) <a href="tel:%28925%29388-0265" value="+19253880265" target="_blank">(925)388-0265</a><br>
(c) <a href="tel:%28510%29928-2683" value="+15109282683" target="_blank">(510)928-2683</a><br>
"building energy simulations at your fingertips"<br>
<br>
<br></div><div><div class="h5">
On 2/11/2014 6:42 PM, Arunabha Sau wrote:<br>
</div></div></div><div><div class="h5">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,102)">Yea,
David. Joe is just making the state-of-art weather files thru'
ASHRAE research projects but he is not performing any
"p-RCx"!! :)</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,102)"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,102)">Thanks
David. Appreciate the reply.The EPW Indian weather files
typically from 1990s. It's typical year weather file. But I
don't think I should use this old weather file in Cx model. My
project is a fairly simple model with few simple EEMs -
efficient chiller and air side economizer.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,102)">Of
course I can calibrate the model to the current energy usage.
Do you think using the 1990 weather file would be good way?</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,102)">
<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,102)">Cheers!</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,102)">Aru</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<br clear="all">
<div>
<div><font color="#000066" face="Georgia, serif"><i>~~~</i></font></div>
<span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;border-collapse:collapse"><i><font color="#000066" size="1"><span style="font-family:Georgia,serif">Texas</span><span style="font-family:Georgia,serif"> </span><span style="font-family:Georgia,serif">Aggie '10</span></font></i></span>
<div>
<span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;border-collapse:collapse"><span><span style="font-family:Georgia,serif"><i><font color="#000066" size="1">JU, Kolkata '05</font></i></span></span></span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;border-collapse:collapse"><span><span style="font-family:Georgia,serif"><i><font size="1">~~~</font></i></span></span></span></div>
<div><span style="border-collapse:collapse"><span style><font color="#ff0000" face="Arial, sans-serif" size="1"><b>
</b></font>
<p style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span style="color:red;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><font size="1"><strong> </strong><strong> </strong></font></span></p>
<font color="#ff0000" face="Arial, sans-serif" size="1"><b>
</b></font>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><font color="#ff0000" face="Arial, sans-serif" size="1"><i>Try not to
become a man of success, but rather try to become
a man of value.</i><b> </b></font></p>
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><font size="1"><font color="#ff0000" face="Arial, sans-serif">- </font><span style="color:rgb(255,0,0);font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Albert Einstein </span></font></p>
<div style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:15px"><br>
</div>
</span></span></div>
</div>
<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 7:57 AM, David
Eldridge <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:DEldridge@grummanbutkus.com" target="_blank">DEldridge@grummanbutkus.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="white" link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Joe,
you aren’t performing “p-RCx energy models” very
often?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">But
seriously Arunabha, the magnitude of RCx savings for
a facility may not be a high percentage of the total
usage – although the measures are low-cost and quick
payback – energy modeling used as part of RCx should
try to use actual weather data if possible or else
the variances due to weather might be the same
magnitude as the RCMs if you are attempting any
significant level of calibration for the model.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">However
you should then run the proposed case with typical
weather in order to model an “expected” annual
savings.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Depending
what measures you are modeling and whether you have
any calibration data during the “p-RCx” phase,
typical weather could work well enough, at least to
get started and see if you should continue using the
model for this purpose.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">David</span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
</span></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">David
S. Eldridge, Jr., P.E., LEED AP BD+C, BEMP, BEAP,
HBDP</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#244061">Grumman/Butkus
Associates</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
</span></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
Joe Huang [mailto:<a href="mailto:yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com" target="_blank">yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, February 11, 2014 2:43 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Arunabha Sau; David Eldridge; <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Fwd: Composition of weather
file data</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">It's inevitable that the peak
conditions will fluctuate from year to year,
that's just the chaotic nature of the weather.
If you
<br>
use a "typical year" weather file, you will tend
to get, but not necessarily, an average annual
peak, since the months have been selected to
best match the long-term distribution of
temperatures, humidity, solar, wind speed, etc.
<br>
<br>
What is pre-RCx ? "pre retro-commissioning"?
What is that? Too many adjectives for me :-)
<br>
<br>
In any case, if you're modeling an existing
building to assess its historical performance, I
would definitely use actual year weather files.
<br>
As for where to find such data, there's a
proliferation of sources on the Web, although
most would require processing to turn them into
formats required by simulation programs such as
eQUEST, etc.
<br>
<br>
Joe<br>
Joe Huang <br>
White Box Technologies, Inc.<br>
346 Rheem Blvd., Suite 108D<br>
Moraga CA 94556<br>
<a href="mailto:yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com" target="_blank">yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com</a><br>
<a href="http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com" target="_blank">http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com</a>
for simulation-ready weather data<br>
<a href="http://www.whiteboxtechnologies.com" target="_blank">http://www.whiteboxtechnologies.com</a><br>
(o) <a href="tel:%28925%29388-0265" value="+19253880265" target="_blank">(925)388-0265</a><br>
(c) <a href="tel:%28510%29928-2683" value="+15109282683" target="_blank">(510)928-2683</a><br>
"building energy simulations at your fingertips"<br>
<br>
<br>
On 2/11/2014 4:09 AM, Arunabha Sau wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#000066">Thanks
Joe & David. </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#000066">Appreciate
your explanation. It was very through.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#000066">In
an EPW file, I saw only 1990's data,
so I was worried about the peak if the
typical years's data would be
different or so! I was modeling for
pre-RCx. So, I was more concerned
about actual (or near to actual)
heating/cooling load.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#000066">For
Cx modeling, do you guys make model
out of these weather file or make a
more customized weather file from some
online available weather file source
or buy one?</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#000066"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#000066">Best
regards,</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#000066">Aru</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#000066"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#000066">~~~</span></i><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#000066"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#000066">Texas Aggie
'10</span></i>
</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:#000066">JU,
Kolkata '05</span></i></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"">~~~</span></i></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><i><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:red">Try
not to become a man of success,
but rather try to become a man of
value.</span></i><b><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:red"> </span></b></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:red">- Albert
Einstein </span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div></div></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div>