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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Both models should indeed match with respect to thermostat setpoints. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">With respect to model documentation, it would be totally appropriate to clearly state the design setpoint (71.6), 20 degree SAT difference mandate, and supply
CHW temperature, together result in a conflict with the energy modeling software. Raising both models’ set points uniformly to 75 would be a very appropriate fix given the circumstances.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">That said, I would not discount the potential effects of fan heat however, as Steve suggested to investigate. The temperature flagged by this particular error
(cooling coil leaving) can be directly affected by the presence and location of a fan in the airstream. If you are currently specifying draw through, the coil leaving temperature will be pushed downward from your specified LAT by the degrees the fan raises…
whereas if the fan is blow through it doesn’t affect the required leaving coil temperature to meet the specified LAT… This is admittedly hard to put to words, but it makes more sense if you sketch it out. If I’m not mistaken, I don’t believe 90.1 cares where
the baseline fans are located with respect to the coils, so long as the other specified parameters are met, and this distinction has made the difference for me in the past to avoid this particular error in the most simple fashion.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">~Nick<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><img width="119" height="37" id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image001.jpg@01CF178B.9D1FBE70" alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB"></span><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E">NICK CATON, P.E.<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#CC9900">SENIOR ENGINEER<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#CC9900"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E">Smith & Boucher Engineers</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;color:#CC9900"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E">25501 west valley parkway, suite 200<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E">olathe, ks 66061<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E">direct 913.344.0036<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E">fax 913.345.0617<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><a href="www.smithboucher.com" title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue">
</span></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Hala Jaber<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 22, 2014 3:44 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> James Hansen; equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Baseline Fan power calculation<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">James,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Do you think that i can set the thermostat set point to 75 for baseline only, i think the baseline and proposed design should have the same indoor temp, if i can do that this will help since i dont have problem in this small amount of saving
that may differ.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">thank you james.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 12:38 AM, James Hansen <<a href="mailto:JHANSEN@ghtltd.com" target="_blank">JHANSEN@ghtltd.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">If it was me, I'd just set the space temperature to 75 degrees, knowing that the difference between
that and 71.6 degrees probably won't make a huge difference in the savings between baseline and proposed.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I thought I remember seeing something from Jeff Hirsch a while back that showed how to de-activate
this particular alarm so that the model would run??</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#4D4F53">GHT Limited</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#0C3844">James Hansen, PE, LEED AP, BEMP</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#0C3844">Senior Associate</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#0C3844">1110 N. Glebe Road, Suite 300</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#0C3844">Arlington, VA 22201</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#0C3844">703.243.1200 (main)</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#0C3844">703.338.5754 (direct/cell)</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><a href="http://www.ghtltd.com" target="_blank"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#C4BA00;text-decoration:none">www.ghtltd.com</span></b></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;border-color:currentColor currentColor">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Hala Jaber [mailto:<a href="mailto:halajaber82@gmail.com" target="_blank">halajaber82@gmail.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 22, 2014 4:30 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> James Hansen; <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">
equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Baseline Fan power calculation</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Dear James, thank you, but i have already set the warmest rest temp as required by section G3.1.3.12 supply air temerature reset, but still i have the problem in the 20 degree
difference between the 71.6 and the cooling coil supply temp.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I hope if this clarify more my question.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#3333FF">Hala Jaber.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#3333FF">Sustainable Design Engineer.; LEED AP BD +C .</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#3333FF">+962-79-7570197</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#3333FF">email: </span><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222"><a href="mailto:halajaber82@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:#3333FF">halajaber82@gmail.com</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 11:57 PM, James Hansen <<a href="mailto:JHANSEN@ghtltd.com" target="_blank">JHANSEN@ghtltd.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">System 8 has a main AHU that feeds parallel fan powered VAV boxes. For your main AHU, you need to
make sure your cooling reset temperature for supply air (LAT) is set to "warmest".</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#4D4F53">GHT Limited</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#0C3844">James Hansen, PE, LEED AP, BEMP</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#0C3844">Senior Associate</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#0C3844">1110 N. Glebe Road, Suite 300</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#0C3844">Arlington, VA 22201</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#0C3844">703.243.1200 (main)</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#0C3844">703.338.5754 (direct/cell)</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><a href="http://www.ghtltd.com" target="_blank"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#C4BA00;text-decoration:none">www.ghtltd.com</span></b></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;border-color:currentColor">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Hala Jaber<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 22, 2014 3:56 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] Baseline Fan power calculation</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Thanks James,but what do you mean by LAT, in addition to the fact that i<br>
have modeled the chilled water supply temperature reset as per the<br>
requirement the rest based on outdoor dry bulb temp using :44 F at 80 f and<br>
above, 54 f at 60 f and below, so how can i compromise this since the<br>
actual thermostat cooling set point is 71.6, and i don't have AHU in<br>
baseline, its system 8.<br>
Thanks alot</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222">-- </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#3333FF">Hala Jaber.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#3333FF">Sustainable Design Engineer.; LEED AP BD +C .</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#3333FF">+962-79-7570197</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#3333FF">email: </span><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222"><a href="mailto:halajaber82@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:#3333FF">halajaber82@gmail.com</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">On Jan 22, 2014 8:24 PM, "James Hansen" <<a href="mailto:JHANSEN@ghtltd.com" target="_blank">JHANSEN@ghtltd.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
> If your CHW supply temp is 44F, and your LAT setpoint for the AHU is 51.6,<br>
> then you are 6F higher. Check your reset schedules - if you allow reset<br>
> for CHW without also allowing reset for the AHU (both per ASHRAE), you may<br>
> have a condition where the CHW supply is within 6 degrees of your LAT.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> GHT Limited<br>
></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">> *James Hansen, PE, LEED AP, BEMP*<br>
><br>
> *Senior Associate*<br>
><br>
> *1110 N. Glebe Road, Suite 300*<br>
><br>
> *Arlington, VA 22201*<br>
><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">> *<span style="font-size:10.0pt;background:white"> 703.243.1200</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> (main)*<br>
><br>
> *</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;background:white"> 703.338.5754</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> (direct/cell)*<br>
><br>
> *</span><a href="http://www.ghtltd.com/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">www.ghtltd.com</span></a><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">* <</span><a href="http://www.ghtltd.com/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">http://www.ghtltd.com</span></a><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#500050">> Hey eQuest users,<br>
> I have a new challanging requirement in the appendix G section G3.1.2.8,<br>
> its required the supply air-to room air cooling temperature difference is<br>
> 20 degrees for each HVAC system. Now my question is how can i achieve this<br>
> if my baseline is system 8 and the chilled water leaving temperature is<br>
> specified 44 F with return delta t=12,at the same time that in my design<br>
> the indoor thermostat temp=71.6 F , and the supply cooling temp should be<br>
> 51.6F, here when i set this value i got an error in eQuest stating that"<br>
> the cooling coil leaving temperatures must be at least 6 F higher than<br>
> entering water temp" and when i set the cooling supply air temp</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p><span style="color:#3333FF">Hala Jaber.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="color:#3333FF">Sustainable Design Engineer.; LEED AP BD +C .</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="color:#3333FF">+962-79-7570197</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="color:#3333FF">email: </span><a href="mailto:halajaber82@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:#3333FF">halajaber82@gmail.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
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-- <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p><span style="color:#3333FF">Hala Jaber.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="color:#3333FF">Sustainable Design Engineer.; LEED AP BD +C .</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="color:#3333FF">+962-79-7570197</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="color:#3333FF">email: </span><a href="mailto:halajaber82@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:#3333FF">halajaber82@gmail.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
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