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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Thanks for bringing that back up - I thought this remained an ambiguous/grey area indefinitely.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">As to potential for squeezing extra performance via power distribution between pumps… I’ve never considered that, but to share my anecdotal experience I typically
just dump all the power on the secondary pumps and make the primary pumps “powerless” for simplicity’s sake in documentation/QC. I suppose for variable-secondary cases that approach might miss out on some baseline energy that would otherwise be burned by
a CV primary…<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">A “logical” approach would be to proportion the ‘system’ 22W/GPM by a ratio to match the pump sizing in the actual design.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">That said, I’ve never been told to proportion my pump energies any differently than my simplified approach of dumping it all in one place.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Hope that helps =),<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">~Nick<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E">NICK CATON, P.E.<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E">Smith & Boucher Engineers</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;color:#CC9900"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E">25501 west valley parkway, suite 200<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E">olathe, ks 66061<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E">direct 913.344.0036<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E">fax 913.345.0617<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Christian Kaltreider<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 25, 2013 2:26 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Bishop, Bill'; 'Joe Fleming'; equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] App G Baseline CHW Pump Power<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Yes, that lays it out pretty clearly. 22 W/GPM system total.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I wonder if future 90.1 versions will prevent gaming of the system (intentional or not) by offering guidance on power allocation among pumps?
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Thanks for the helpful replies,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Christian<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Bishop, Bill [<a href="mailto:bbishop@pathfinder-ea.com">mailto:bbishop@pathfinder-ea.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 25, 2013 2:11 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Joe Fleming; 'Christian Kaltreider'; <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">
equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] App G Baseline CHW Pump Power<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Christian,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Confirming what Joe says, an
<a href="https://www.ashrae.org/File%20Library/docLib/StdsInterpretations/IC-90-1-2007-14.pdf">
ASHRAE interpretation</a> clarified that 22W/gpm is the total power of all baseline CHW pumps.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Bill<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Medium","sans-serif";color:black">William Bishop, PE, BEMP, BEAP, LEED AP
</span></b><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Medium","sans-serif";color:#006600">|</span></b><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Medium","sans-serif";color:black"> Pathfinder Engineers & Architects LLP<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Senior Energy Engineer<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">134 South Fitzhugh Street</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#1F497D">
</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Rochester, NY 14608<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">T: (585) 325-6004
</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Ext. 114</span><span style="color:#1F497D">
</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">F: (585) 325-6005</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><a href="mailto:wbishop@pathfinder-ea.com"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">bbishop@pathfinder-ea.com</span></a></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><a href="http://www.pathfinder-ea.com/"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">www.pathfinder-ea.com</span></a></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Webdings;color:green">P</span><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:green">
</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;color:green">Sustainability – the forest AND the trees.</span><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:Webdings;color:green">
</span><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Webdings;color:green">P</span><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:green"> </span><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:green"> </span><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Webdings;color:green">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Joe Fleming<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 25, 2013 2:07 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Christian Kaltreider'; <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">
equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] App G Baseline CHW Pump Power<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Almost certain that the GBCI interprets it as a whole system divvy, not each pump with 22W/GPM.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Corbel","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Joe Fleming
</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Corbel","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">|<b>
</b>PE, LEED AP BD+C, BEMP<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Corbel","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Commissioning Agent / Energy Modeler
</span></i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Corbel","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">|
</span><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Corbel","sans-serif";color:#5B960C">The Spinnaker Group</span></b><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Corbel","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Christian Kaltreider<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 25, 2013 2:01 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] App G Baseline CHW Pump Power<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Hello,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">In November 2010, around the same time someone was modeling a building that looked like a turkey, there was a conversation on this list about baseline CHW pump
power:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/htdig.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org/2010-November/006941.html">http://lists.onebuilding.org/htdig.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org/2010-November/006941.html</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Part of the discussion was some back and forth about how to apply G 3.1.3.10. This section calls for baseline pump power to equal 22W/GPM and for the CHW pumping
configuration to be primary/secondary. Some had the opinion that each pump (primary and secondary loops) should have 22 W/GPM assigned to it, while others thought that the total CHW pump system power should sum to 22 W/GPM, and that it was up to the modeler
to divvy up the power among pumps as they see fit. I did not see a clear conclusion. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Does anyone know if a general consensus was reached?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Christian<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#595959">Christian Kaltreider, LEED AP</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#595959"> | Energy Analyst<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#4F6228">Sud Associates, P.A.</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#595959"> | T 828.255.4691 | F 828.255.4949 |
<a href="http://www.sudassociates.com">www.sudassociates.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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