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That's why I'm confused about the conundrum, because it seems the
question arises because the building is unconditioned, not that it
has a lot of fixed openings. As far as modeling natural ventilation
through fixed openings, that's just infiltration with another name,
which can be modeled by setting the EFFECTIVE-LEAKAGE-FRACTION to
the (total area of openings)/(total floor area). Just as an amusing
sidenote, a long time ago I asked Max Sherman (co-author of the
Sherman-Grimsrud Model) whether he had any reservations about using
the SGM to model natural ventilation instead of infiltration. To my
surprise, Max said that it actually should work better for large
openings than for cracks and leaks.<br>
<br>
Joe<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="90">Joe Huang
White Box Technologies, Inc.
346 Rheem Blvd., Suite 108D
Moraga CA 94556
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com">yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com">http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com</a> for simulation-ready weather data
(o) (925)388-0265
(c) (510)928-2683
"building energy simulations at your fingertips"
</pre>
<br>
On 11/22/2013 12:28 PM, Maria Karpman wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:032201cee7c1$79e8fe20$6dbafa60$@karpmanconsulting.net"
type="cite">
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<div>
<p><span>I would contact USGBC or search CIRs to establish rules
that apply to the project. From 90.1 perspective, Appendix G
shouldn’t be used: “…</span><b><span>G1.1 Performance Rating
Method Scope. </span></b><span>….this appendix is
provided for those wishing to use the methodology developed
for this standard to quantify performance that substantially
exceeds the requirements of Standard 90.1. It may be useful
for evaluating the performance of all <i>proposed designs</i>,
including <i>alterations </i>and <i>additions </i>to <i>existing
buildings</i>, <span>except designs with no mechanical
systems.</span>“ </span><span>That said, I would be
surprised if this disqualifies the project from getting LEED
certification. If there are no conditioned spaces and all
you have is lighting and some process loads, you should be
able to calculate savings in a simple spreadsheet since
there are no interacting systems. If USGBC asks you to model
it (I really can’t think of a reason why though…), you’d
model it as unconditioned in both the baseline and proposed
designs, so it wouldn’t matter whether the windows are
operable or not. Please keep us posted about how this is
resolved. I am curious what LEED policies are for such
projects. </span></p>
<p><span> </span></p>
<p><span>Maria </span></p>
<p><span> </span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p><b><span>From:</span></b><span>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Christian Stalberg<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, November 22, 2013 3:00 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] natural ventilation
scenario and LEED </span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p> </p>
<p><span>Joe, </span></p>
<p><span> </span></p>
<p><span>Okay let me elaborate further. </span></p>
<p><span> </span></p>
<p><span>This high bay warehouse building has no HVAC
whatsoever. Not even ventilation fans. Only fixed openings
distributed across the walls and at the roof. I do not know
if LEED specifies modeling only operable windows, but that
is the example they give in their guidebook. Again, I do not
know if this building would even qualify as enclosed space
and therefore be eligible for modeling. I have looked
everywhere including the LEEDuser forum and am unable to
shed light on this issue. </span></p>
<p><span> </span></p>
<p><span>Regards, </span></p>
<div>
<p><span>_ </span></p>
<p><span>Christian Stalberg </span></p>
<p><span>Natural Intelligence, LLC </span></p>
<p><span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://naturalintelligence.us">http://naturalintelligence.us</a>
</span></p>
<p><span>Tel. 415.531.4610 </span></p>
</div>
<p><span> </span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p><b><span>From:</span></b><span> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Joe Huang<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, November 22, 2013 10:58 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] natural ventilation
scenario and LEED </span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p> </p>
<p>Christian,<br>
<br>
I'm still unclear what is the conundrum. Is it that LEED
modeling rules only specify operable natural ventilation, or
that you're unclear how to model fixed, i.e., uncontrolled,
natural ventilation?<br>
<br>
Joe </p>
<pre>Joe Huang </pre>
<pre>White Box Technologies, Inc. </pre>
<pre>346 Rheem Blvd., Suite 108D </pre>
<pre>Moraga CA 94556 </pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com">yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com</a> </pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com">http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com</a> for simulation-ready weather data </pre>
<pre>(o) (925)388-0265 </pre>
<pre>(c) (510)928-2683 </pre>
<pre>"building energy simulations at your fingertips" </pre>
<p><br>
On 11/21/2013 4:58 PM, Christian Stalberg wrote: </p>
<div>
<p>I’m getting no responses on the bldg-sim list so am trying
here too. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>I have a factory/warehouse that is using natural
ventilation for cooling. What is unusual is that the
openings are fixed openings. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>At first glance it seems that it would not even qualify as
an enclosed space and therefore would not be eligible for
energy modeling for LEED. The project is registered at USGBC
however, of course I realize that may mean nothing. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>If this project could be eligible for LEED certification, I
am trying to come up with an approach and all I can think of
is pretending the openings are operable and then following
the guidelines as outlined in the Advanced Energy Modeling
for LEED handbook. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>I would appreciate any guidance anyone can offer on this
seeming conundrum! </p>
<p> </p>
<p>_ </p>
<p>Christian Stalberg </p>
<p>Natural Intelligence, LLC </p>
<p><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://naturalintelligence.us">http://naturalintelligence.us</a>
</p>
<p>Tel. 415.531.4610 </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
</div>
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