<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)">
<!--[if !mso]><style>v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style><![endif]--><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Verdana;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Cambria;
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Franklin Gothic Medium";
panose-1:2 11 6 3 2 1 2 2 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Webdings;
panose-1:5 3 1 2 1 5 9 6 7 3;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
p.MsoAcetate, li.MsoAcetate, div.MsoAcetate
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Balloon Text Char";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:8.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";}
span.BalloonTextChar
{mso-style-name:"Balloon Text Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Balloon Text";
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";}
span.EmailStyle19
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:windowtext;}
span.EmailStyle20
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
font-variant:normal !important;
color:#17365D;
text-transform:none;
text-shadow:none;
text-decoration:none none;
vertical-align:baseline;}
span.EmailStyle21
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
span.EmailStyle22
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
span.EmailStyle23
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black;}
span.EmailStyle24
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>
<body lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Kapil, <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">No, I am only accounting for the “face” of the balcony, as if you sheared it off at the plane of the wall.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">That is my point, the fancy thermal modeling in the report, which is supposed to account multi-dimensional fin-effects doesn’t come out with much different result than if you just take a simplified approach like
a typical UA-trade-off calculation (one directional heat transfer, no fin effects accounted for). So by that line of reasoning, you would likely be OVER ESTIMATING heat loss if you throw in all three heat-exchanger surfaces that you mention in your methodology.
I’d be interested if you compared your calculation results to the thermal modeling in the report if you feel like a little intellectual exercise.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#632423">Nathan Miller
</span></b><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">-</span></b><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#632423">
</span></b><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#632423">PE, LEED<sup>®</sup>AP BD+C, CEM<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:4.0pt"><i><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black">Mechanical Engineer/Senior Energy Analyst
<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:115%"><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#632423">RUSHING</span></b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#BFAB7F">
</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black">|
</span><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#632423">D</span></b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#BFAB7F">
</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black">206-788-4577 |</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#BFAB7F">
</span><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#632423">O</span></b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#A50021">
</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black">206-285-7100</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#BFAB7F"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:115%"><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#6F1200"><a href="http://www.rushingco.com/"><span style="color:#6F1200">www.rushingco.com</span></a></span></b><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#632423"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Kapil Upadhyaya [mailto:KapilU@kirksey.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 05, 2013 1:53 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nathan Miller; Bishop, Bill; David Griffin; 'Coleman, Kevin'; equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] Slab extending through wall<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Nathan,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">In the Balcony calculation, are you accounting for both the 'edges' and 'exposed area' of the balcony ?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">In my opinion, a concrete balcony should be accounted for as a heat exchanger with 3 surfaces (perimeter edges, upper surface, lower surface); it looks like you
are only accounting for the edges. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">I had a 'heated' discussion about this with a vendor recently and the above is more or less a conclusion of that. Some of the structural thermal break products
can be too expensive to justify based on energy savings, if area of balconies is not accounted for; the bigger your balcony, the better your payback from thermal breaks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Best,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Kapil Upadhyaya, LEED AP</span></b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">
<br>
Associate<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:red">Kirksey</span></b><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:red"> |</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> Architecture<br>
6909 Portwest Drive </span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:red">|</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> Houston Texas 77024 </span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:red">|</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">
<a href="http://www.kirksey.com"><span style="color:black">www.kirksey.com</span></a>
<br>
o 713 426 7508 </span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:red">|</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> f 713 850 7308 </span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:red">|</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">
<a href="mailto:kapilu@kirksey.com"><span style="color:black">kapilu@kirksey.com</span></a></span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray">2012-2013 Firm of the Year </span></b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray"><br>
Texas Society of Architects</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Nathan Miller [<a href="mailto:nathanm@rushingco.com">mailto:nathanm@rushingco.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 04, 2013 5:27 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Bishop, Bill; David Griffin; 'Coleman, Kevin'; <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">
equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Slab extending through wall<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">To me the most interesting part of the report isn’t the conclusion that thermally broken balconies and slab edges give significantly better thermal performance (we all know that intuitively). Instead it gives
a way of back checking what I would consider to be “standard practice” for calculating area-weighted U-factor for these same assemblies using default ASHRAE U-values to sophisticated thermal model results. Here are my thoughts, checking my calcs and comments
appreciated.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:#1F497D">Executive summary: It looks like our standard assembly performance tables and area-weighted U-factor calculations get us “close enough” to the results from this report that it doesn’t seem to suggest we should
switch methodologies. <o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:#1F497D">Comparison calculation for steel-framed walls (stud insulation + exterior rigid):<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D;background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow">For a 16” OC metal stud wall, R-12 Batt cavity insulation and R-5 continuous rigid insulation, the report states that the Effective R-value for the wall + slab will be R-7.4.</span><span style="color:#1F497D">
This is based on 8’8” floor-to-floor, and 8” slab.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Using ASHRAE 90.1-2007 Table A3.3 for steel framed walls, we would get an effective U-factor for the wall portion of U = 0.0785 (interpolating between the R-13 + R-11 batt values). If we use Table A3.1A for the
exposed slab edge (assuming 8” normal weight solid concrete walls), we get a U-factor of U = 0.740 for the slab edge.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D;background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow">Doing an area weighted U-factor calc</span><span style="color:#1F497D">: U<sub>eff</sub> = U<sub>1</sub>*A<sub>1</sub>+U<sub>2</sub>*A<sub>2</sub>/(A<sub>1</sub>+A<sub>2</sub>)
or in this case, factoring out the Length of the wall section we use: U<sub>1</sub>*H<sub>1</sub>+U<sub>2</sub>*H<sub>2</sub>/(H<sub>1</sub>+H<sub>2</sub>) = (0.0785*8 + 0.740*8/12)/(8+8/12) = 0.1294 or an
<span style="background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow">effective R-value of 7.73, which is pretty close to the R-7.4 claimed, a difference of about 4% in U-value</span>. Maybe I’m cynical, but to me that seems close enough.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I only spot checked this assembly, so maybe there is more impact with different construction types.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Another interesting tid-bit: Apparently the much vaunted fin-effect is actually pretty minimal. If you look at the results of the exposed slab-edge condition vs the full balcony fin-effect, the balcony scenario
actually shows slightly BETTER thermal performance. Odd. <br>
<img border="0" width="949" height="206" id="Picture_x0020_2" src="cid:image001.png@01CEDA2F.8EF4D090"><br>
<img border="0" width="957" height="165" id="Picture_x0020_3" src="cid:image002.png@01CEDA2F.8EF4D090"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#632423">Nathan Miller
</span></b><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">-</span></b><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#632423">
</span></b><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#632423">PE, LEED<sup>®</sup>AP BD+C, CEM<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:4.0pt"><i><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black">Mechanical Engineer/Senior Energy Analyst
<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:115%"><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#632423">RUSHING</span></b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#BFAB7F">
</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black">|
</span><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#632423">D</span></b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#BFAB7F">
</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black">206-788-4577 |</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#BFAB7F">
</span><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#632423">O</span></b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#A50021">
</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black">206-285-7100</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#BFAB7F"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:115%"><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#6F1200"><a href="http://www.rushingco.com/"><span style="color:#6F1200">www.rushingco.com</span></a></span></b><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#632423"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">
equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Bishop, Bill<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 04, 2013 1:42 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> David Griffin; 'Coleman, Kevin'; <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">
equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Slab extending through wall<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Here’s a timely report on effective R-values of assemblies with slab/balcony thermal bridges:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><a href="http://www.rdhbe.com/database/files/library/Balcony_and_Slab_Edge_Thermal_Bridges___1___R_values_and_Energy_Code_Canada__Sept_24_13.pdf">The Importance of Slab Edge and Balcony Thermal Bridges</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Bill<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Medium","sans-serif";color:black">William Bishop, PE, BEMP, BEAP, LEED AP
</span></b><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Medium","sans-serif";color:#006600">|</span></b><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Medium","sans-serif";color:black"> Pathfinder Engineers & Architects LLP<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</div>
<table class="MsoNormalTable" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="522" style="width:391.85pt;border-collapse:collapse">
<tbody>
<tr style="height:.2in">
<td width="370" style="width:277.4pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;height:.2in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Senior Energy Engineer<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</td>
<td width="153" rowspan="6" style="width:114.45pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;height:.2in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><img border="0" width="123" height="83" id="Picture_x0020_7" src="cid:image003.jpg@01CEDA2F.8EF4D090" alt="webCertified_logo_colorRGB72DPI.jpg"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="height:4.9pt">
<td width="370" valign="top" style="width:277.4pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;height:4.9pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:5.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="height:10.5pt">
<td width="370" nowrap="" valign="bottom" style="width:277.4pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;height:10.5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">134 South Fitzhugh Street</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D">
</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Rochester, NY 14608<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="height:13.3pt">
<td width="370" valign="top" style="width:277.4pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;height:13.3pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">T: (585) 325-6004
</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Ext. 114</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D">
</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">F: (585) 325-6005</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="height:10.5pt">
<td width="370" valign="top" style="width:277.4pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;height:10.5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><a href="mailto:wbishop@pathfinder-ea.com"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">bbishop@pathfinder-ea.com</span></a></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">
</span><span style="color:#1F497D"><a href="http://www.pathfinder-ea.com/"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">www.pathfinder-ea.com</span></a></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="height:26.3pt">
<td width="370" valign="top" style="width:277.4pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;height:26.3pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Webdings;color:green">P</span><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:green">
</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:green">Sustainability – the forest AND the trees.</span><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:Webdings;color:green">
</span><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Webdings;color:green">P</span><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:green"> </span><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Webdings;color:green">
</span><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>David Griffin<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 04, 2013 4:20 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Coleman, Kevin'; <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">
equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Slab extending through wall<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#17365D">Kevin,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#17365D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#17365D">I’m fairly sure eQUEST is not even going to closely approximate the heat loss/gain accurately unless you dial the loads in manually which means you have to calculate them by hand
first. I suggest referring to ASHRAE-D-RP-1365 for guidance on estimating the loads. The section you are interested in starts on page 35.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#17365D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#17365D">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#17365D"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:4.5pt"><b><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#17365D">David W. Griffin II<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:4.5pt"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#17365D">Energy Analyst<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:4.5pt"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#17365D">ETC Group, LLC<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:4.5pt"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#17365D">801-278-1927 x 128<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:4.5pt"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#17365D">Cell 480-736-2945<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:4.5pt"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#17365D"><a href="mailto:dgriffin@etcgrp.com">dgriffin@etcgrp.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:4.5pt"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#17365D"><a href="http://www.etcgrp.com">www.etcgrp.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#17365D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#17365D"><img border="0" width="112" height="27" id="Picture_x0020_0" src="cid:image004.jpg@01CEDA2F.8EF4D090" alt="Copy of ETC_LogoOnly2_rgb_sm.png"></span><span style="font-size:6.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:4.5pt"><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#17365D">Energy Engineering for a Sustainable Future</span></b><span style="font-size:6.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:4.5pt"><span style="font-size:6.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">1997 South 1100 East, Salt Lake City, UT 84106-4471
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:4.5pt">
<span style="font-size:6.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<br>
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering
it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please
immediately notify us by telephone at (801) 278-1927 and destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading them. Thank you.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#17365D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Coleman, Kevin [<a href="mailto:kcoleman@nexant.com">mailto:kcoleman@nexant.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 04, 2013 11:56 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] Slab extending through wall<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I am evaluating a new 10-story hotel design that is proposing glass curtain walls and pre-tensioned concrete floors that project beyond the walls. On 3 sides the projections are minimal (6 inches). However, on one side, the projections
extend about 3 ft. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">For the small projections, I intent to use the following method recommended in the thread below. “In screen 4 of 25 of the DD shell wizard you can specify "Slab Penetrates Wall Plane" (check box).”<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I am interested in any tips for modeling the thermal impacts of the larger projections. Thoughts? (I plan to use window shading for the light/shading impacts.)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I am hopeful that the analysis will help convince the design team to incorporate some insulation and thermal breaks!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks in advance!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Kevin<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Brian Fountain bfountain at greensim.com <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Mon Dec 6 11:45:18 PST 2010<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Previous message: [Equest-users] balcony<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Next message: [Equest-users] Shading<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">In screen 4 of 25 of the DD shell wizard you can specify "Slab
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Penetrates Wall Plane" (check box). If you do, eQUEST created a new
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">wall type of height equal to your slab thickness and composed of 1' of
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">concrete plus any slab edge insulation you specify on the same wiz
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">screen. That provides a parallel path for the heat transfer from the
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">balcony or slab edge. Not exactly 2D heat transfer modelling -- but at
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">least you aren't ignoring the effect of the slab edge or balcony.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:#1F497D">Kevin Coleman, CEM, LEED AP</span></b><span style="font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:#000066"> </span><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#999999">■</span><span style="font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:#000066">
</span><b><span style="font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:#999999">Project Manager
</span></b><b><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#999999">■</span></b><b><span style="font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:#000066">
</span></b><b><span style="font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:#1F497D">Nexant, Inc.</span></b><b><span style="font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:#000066">
</span></b><b><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#999999">■</span></b><b><span style="font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:#999999"> Demand Management
<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#999999">1232 Fourier Drive, Suite 125</span><span style="color:#000066">
</span><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#999999">■</span><span style="color:#999999"> Madison, WI 53717 </span><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#999999">■</span><span style="color:#999999"> 608.824.1230
</span><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#999999">■</span><span style="color:#999999">
</span><span style="color:#000066"> </span><u><span style="color:blue"><a href="mailto:kcoleman@nexant.com">kcoleman@nexant.com</a></span></u><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:Webdings;color:green">P
</span><span style="color:green">Please consider the environment before printing this email<b>
<o:p></o:p></b></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>