<div dir="ltr"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Dear Joe Huang,</span><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Yes, I am aware of this. I am trying to make the ground heat transfer calculation parameters I will use in EnergyPlus as similar as possible to those in eQuest in order to prevent them from being the cause of variation between the two programs. So, regardless of how unreliable or approximate these ground temperatures may be, I am OK with this at the moment. But, thank you very much for making this point. It is very true.</div>
</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 8:07 PM, Joe Huang <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com" target="_blank">yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><u></u>
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff">
Simge,<br>
<br>
If you know what's happening to the ground temperatures in DOE-2,
you should then know that they are calculated by a sine-curve
equation developed by Tamami Kusuda in the early 1980's that takes
up only 10 lines of code in the DOE-2 weather packer, using default
values for soil diffusivity and ignoring the effects of water
table, surface evapotranspiration, or geothermal anomalies. In
other words, these ground temperatures are extremely approximate.<div class="im"><br>
<br>
Joe<br>
<pre cols="90">Joe Huang
White Box Technologies, Inc.
346 Rheem Blvd., Suite 108D
Moraga CA 94556
<a href="mailto:yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com" target="_blank">yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com</a>
<a href="http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com" target="_blank">http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com</a> for simulation-ready weather data
(o) <a href="tel:%28925%29388-0265" value="+19253880265" target="_blank">(925)388-0265</a>
(c) <a href="tel:%28510%29928-2683" value="+15109282683" target="_blank">(510)928-2683</a>
"building energy simulations at your fingertips"
</pre>
<br></div><div><div class="h5">
On 10/24/2013 6:45 PM, Simge Andolsun wrote:
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>Kapil hi! :) Great to hear from you!
<div>Dear Joe and Nick,<br>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks for all your responses. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I actually know what's happening to the ground
temperatures in DOE-2, how they are used in ground heat
transfer calculations and their effect on overall building
energy consumption. I just wanted to know how to make eQuest
plot these temperatures for me. Thanks to y'all, I managed
to do it. But, thank you so much for responding with this
much detail! </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best Regards,</div>
<div>Simge Andolsun, PhD.</div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
<br>
<div>On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 5:34 PM, Kapil Upadhyaya <span><<a href="mailto:KapilU@kirksey.com" target="_blank">KapilU@kirksey.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote>
<div lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p><span>Simge, </span></p>
<p><span>Do keep in mind that in DOE2 these are fixed
monthly averages used for all hours of the month;
these are derived by the ground reaching
monthly-average outside air temperature at a lag of
3 months. </span></p>
<p><span> </span></p>
<p><span>Ground Temperature will have little effect on
loads/energy in Houston for typical buildings. If
you are simulating geothermal heat exchange or
radiant heating (thru slab-on-grade), then the
investigation will be time worth spent. </span></p>
<p><span> </span></p>
<p><span>Best, </span></p>
<p><span> </span></p>
<div>
<p><b><span>Kapil Upadhyaya, LEED AP</span></b><span>
<br>
Associate </span></p>
<p><b><span>Kirksey</span></b><span> |</span><span> Architecture<br>
6909 Portwest Drive </span><span>|</span><span>
Houston Texas 77024 </span><span>|</span><span>
<a href="http://www.kirksey.com" target="_blank"><span>www.kirksey.com</span></a>
<br>
o <a href="tel:713%C2%A0426%C2%A07508" target="_blank">713 426 7508</a> </span><span>|</span><span>
f <a href="tel:713%C2%A0850%C2%A07308" target="_blank">713 850 7308</a>
</span><span>|</span><span> <a href="mailto:kapilu@kirksey.com" target="_blank"><span>kapilu@kirksey.com</span></a></span><span>
</span></p>
<p><b><span>2012-2013 Firm of the Year </span></b><span><br>
Texas Society of Architects</span><span> </span></p>
</div>
<p><span> </span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p><b><span>From:</span></b><span> Nick Caton
[mailto:<a href="mailto:ncaton@smithboucher.com" target="_blank">ncaton@smithboucher.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, October 24, 2013 2:55 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Joe Huang; <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a></span></p>
<div>
<div><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Ground
temperatures </div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p> </p>
<p><span>I haven’t tried Joe’s suggested tool (yet),
but here’s the hourly report variable you’re
looking for: </span></p>
<p><img><span>
</span></p>
<p><span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rankine_scale" target="_blank">(Rankine
conversion reference)</a> </span></p>
<div>
<p><span> </span></p>
<p><span>You get here double clicking one of the
hourly report items in the component tree
under the “project and site” tab. You can
view the results by running the simulation
then either opening the resulting .csv in the
project directory or clicking the “hourly
results” button on the top right of the
“detailed results viewer,” which opens the
same file. Within that file scroll to the far
right to check out any custom report variables
you’ve included for the project. </span></p>
<p><span> </span></p>
<p><span>Such an hourly report builds upon Joe’s
observation – it appears the monthly ground
temperatures are averaged into 12 values over
the year, then applied to each month on an
hourly basis for the simulation. I can’t
speak to whether this is a trait specific to
eQuest and/or the DOE-2 engine. </span></p>
<p><span> </span></p>
<p><span>~Nick </span></p>
<p><span> </span></p>
<p><span><img alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB"></span><b><span>
</span></b></p>
<p><b><span> </span></b></p>
<p><b><span>NICK CATON, P.E. </span></b></p>
<p><span>SENIOR ENGINEER </span></p>
<p><span> </span></p>
<p><span>Smith & Boucher Engineers</span><span>
</span></p>
<p><span>25501 west valley parkway, suite 200 </span></p>
<p><span>olathe, ks 66061 </span></p>
<p><span>direct <a href="tel:913.344.0036" target="_blank">913.344.0036</a> </span></p>
<p><span>fax <a href="tel:913.345.0617" target="_blank">913.345.0617</a> </span></p>
<p><span><a href="http://www.smithboucher.com" title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com" target="_blank"><span>www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span>
<span>
</span> <span> </span></p>
</div>
<p><span> </span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p><b><span>From:</span></b><span> <a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Joe Huang<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, October 24, 2013 2:18
PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Ground
temperatures </span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p> </p>
<p>Correction to previous e-mail, meant to say<br>
<br>
"By the way, I think that DOE-2 should do some
smoothing or interpolation of the monthly ground
temperatures; right now if you look at ..."<br>
<br>
Joe </p>
<pre>Joe Huang </pre>
<pre>White Box Technologies, Inc. </pre>
<pre>346 Rheem Blvd., Suite 108D </pre>
<pre>Moraga CA 94556 </pre>
<pre><a href="mailto:yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com" target="_blank">yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com</a> </pre>
<pre><a href="http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com" target="_blank">http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com</a> for simulation-ready weather data </pre>
<pre>(o) <a href="tel:%28925%29388-0265" target="_blank">(925)388-0265</a> </pre>
<pre>(c) <a href="tel:%28510%29928-2683" target="_blank">(510)928-2683</a> </pre>
<pre>"building energy simulations at your fingertips" </pre>
<p><br>
On 10/24/2013 12:15 PM, Joe Huang wrote: </p>
<p>In my opinion, the easiest way to get the ground
temperatures would not be through DOE-2 Hourly
Reports, although I'm sure that can be done, but
by reading them from the weather file using the
WTHFMT2 utility program that converts the file
from binary to text. There are just 12 numbers
for monthly ground temperatures, shown on line 2
of the *.FMT files. By the way, I think that
DOE-2 does some smoothing or interpolation of the
monthly ground temperatures; right now if you look
at the hourly heat transfer through Underground
walls or floors, you'll see a wierd staircase
effect with the same load for a whole month, and
then a jump to a different load the next month,
etc.<br>
<br>
Joe </p>
<pre>Joe Huang </pre>
<pre>White Box Technologies, Inc. </pre>
<pre>346 Rheem Blvd., Suite 108D </pre>
<pre>Moraga CA 94556 </pre>
<pre><a href="mailto:yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com" target="_blank">yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com</a> </pre>
<pre><a href="http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com" target="_blank">http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com</a> for simulation-ready weather data </pre>
<pre>(o) <a href="tel:%28925%29388-0265" target="_blank">(925)388-0265</a> </pre>
<pre>(c) <a href="tel:%28510%29928-2683" target="_blank">(510)928-2683</a> </pre>
<pre>"building energy simulations at your fingertips" </pre>
<p><br>
On 10/24/2013 11:05 AM, Simge Andolsun wrote: </p>
<div>
<div>
<p>Dear eQuest Users, </p>
</div>
<div>
<p> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p>Would you please let me know which report
would give me the deep ground temperatures
used in ground heat transfer calculations of
eQuest? I used to select an hourly report
variable to make DOE-2.1e report these values,
but I am not sure how to get these values from
eQuest. Would you help me with this? </p>
</div>
<div>
<p> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p>Thank you very much in advance for your help,
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p>Best Regards, </p>
</div>
<div>
<p> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p>Simge Andolsun, PhD. </p>
</div>
</div>
<pre> </pre>
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