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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">The ground temperatures in the
EnergyPlus EPW should be exactly the same those in the DOE-2 BIN
of the same weather file, because I remember extracting the GTEMP
subroutine from the DOE-2 weather packer and providing it to the
EnergyPlus development team some 15 years ago or so.<br>
<br>
Joe<br>
<br>
On 10/24/2013 7:36 PM, Simge Andolsun wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAHm8iRP2uEcyUBvPe8dL3x6X8J4rc==GxXAV1fdqT6PMZ04r9Q@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Context-Type" content="text/html;
charset=windows-1252">
<div dir="ltr"><span>Dear Joe Huang,</span>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Yes, I am aware of this. I am trying to make the ground
heat transfer calculation parameters I will use in EnergyPlus
as similar as possible to those in eQuest in order to prevent
them from being the cause of variation between the two
programs. So, regardless of how unreliable or approximate
these ground temperatures may be, I am OK with this at the
moment. But, thank you very much for making this point. It is
very true.</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 8:07 PM, Joe
Huang <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com"
target="_blank">yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote">
<div> Simge,<br>
<br>
If you know what's happening to the ground temperatures in
DOE-2, you should then know that they are calculated by a
sine-curve equation developed by Tamami Kusuda in the
early 1980's that takes up only 10 lines of code in the
DOE-2 weather packer, using default values for soil
diffusivity and ignoring the effects of water table,
surface evapotranspiration, or geothermal anomalies. In
other words, these ground temperatures are extremely
approximate.
<div class="im"><br>
<br>
Joe<br>
<pre cols="90">Joe Huang
White Box Technologies, Inc.
346 Rheem Blvd., Suite 108D
Moraga CA 94556
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com" target="_blank">yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com" target="_blank">http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com</a> for simulation-ready weather data
(o) <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%28925%29388-0265" value="+19253880265" target="_blank">(925)388-0265</a>
(c) <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%28510%29928-2683" value="+15109282683" target="_blank">(510)928-2683</a>
"building energy simulations at your fingertips"
</pre>
<br>
</div>
<div>
<div class="h5"> On 10/24/2013 6:45 PM, Simge Andolsun
wrote:
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>Kapil hi! :) Great to hear from you!
<div>Dear Joe and Nick,<br>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks for all your responses. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I actually know what's happening to the
ground temperatures in DOE-2, how they are
used in ground heat transfer calculations and
their effect on overall building energy
consumption. I just wanted to know how to make
eQuest plot these temperatures for me. Thanks
to y'all, I managed to do it. But, thank you
so much for responding with this much detail! </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best Regards,</div>
<div>Simge Andolsun, PhD.</div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
<br>
<div>On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 5:34 PM, Kapil
Upadhyaya <span><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:KapilU@kirksey.com"
target="_blank">KapilU@kirksey.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote>
<div lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p><span>Simge, </span></p>
<p><span>Do keep in mind that in DOE2
these are fixed monthly averages used
for all hours of the month; these are
derived by the ground reaching
monthly-average outside air
temperature at a lag of 3 months. </span></p>
<p><span> </span></p>
<p><span>Ground Temperature will have
little effect on loads/energy in
Houston for typical buildings. If you
are simulating geothermal heat
exchange or radiant heating (thru
slab-on-grade), then the
investigation will be time worth
spent. </span></p>
<p><span> </span></p>
<p><span>Best, </span></p>
<p><span> </span></p>
<div>
<p><b><span>Kapil Upadhyaya, LEED AP</span></b><span>
<br>
Associate </span></p>
<p><b><span>Kirksey</span></b><span> |</span><span> Architecture<br>
6909 Portwest Drive </span><span>|</span><span>
Houston Texas 77024 </span><span>|</span><span>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.kirksey.com"
target="_blank"><span>www.kirksey.com</span></a>
<br>
o <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:713%C2%A0426%C2%A07508"
target="_blank">713 426 7508</a> </span><span>|</span><span>
f <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:713%C2%A0850%C2%A07308"
target="_blank">713 850 7308</a> </span><span>|</span><span>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:kapilu@kirksey.com"
target="_blank"><span>kapilu@kirksey.com</span></a></span><span>
</span></p>
<p><b><span>2012-2013 Firm of the Year </span></b><span><br>
Texas Society of Architects</span><span>
</span></p>
</div>
<p><span> </span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p><b><span>From:</span></b><span>
Nick Caton [mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ncaton@smithboucher.com"
target="_blank">ncaton@smithboucher.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, October 24,
2013 2:55 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Joe Huang; <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org"
target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a></span></p>
<div>
<div><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users]
Ground temperatures </div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p> </p>
<p><span>I haven’t tried Joe’s
suggested tool (yet), but here’s
the hourly report variable you’re
looking for: </span></p>
<p><img moz-do-not-send="true"><span>
</span></p>
<p><span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rankine_scale"
target="_blank">(Rankine
conversion reference)</a> </span></p>
<div>
<p><span> </span></p>
<p><span>You get here double
clicking one of the hourly
report items in the component
tree under the “project and
site” tab. You can view the
results by running the
simulation then either opening
the resulting .csv in the
project directory or clicking
the “hourly results” button on
the top right of the “detailed
results viewer,” which opens the
same file. Within that file
scroll to the far right to check
out any custom report variables
you’ve included for the project.
</span></p>
<p><span> </span></p>
<p><span>Such an hourly report
builds upon Joe’s observation –
it appears the monthly ground
temperatures are averaged into
12 values over the year, then
applied to each month on an
hourly basis for the
simulation. I can’t speak to
whether this is a trait specific
to eQuest and/or the DOE-2
engine. </span></p>
<p><span> </span></p>
<p><span>~Nick </span></p>
<p><span> </span></p>
<p><span><img moz-do-not-send="true"
alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB"></span><b><span> </span></b></p>
<p><b><span> </span></b></p>
<p><b><span>NICK CATON, P.E. </span></b></p>
<p><span>SENIOR ENGINEER </span></p>
<p><span> </span></p>
<p><span>Smith & Boucher
Engineers</span><span> </span></p>
<p><span>25501 west valley parkway,
suite 200 </span></p>
<p><span>olathe, ks 66061 </span></p>
<p><span>direct <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:913.344.0036"
target="_blank">913.344.0036</a>
</span></p>
<p><span>fax <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:913.345.0617"
target="_blank">913.345.0617</a>
</span></p>
<p><span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.smithboucher.com"
title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com" target="_blank"><span>www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span>
<span> </span> <span> </span></p>
</div>
<p><span> </span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p><b><span>From:</span></b><span>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org"
target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
[mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org"
target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Joe Huang<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, October
24, 2013 2:18 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org"
target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re:
[Equest-users] Ground
temperatures </span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p> </p>
<p>Correction to previous e-mail,
meant to say<br>
<br>
"By the way, I think that DOE-2
should do some smoothing or
interpolation of the monthly ground
temperatures; right now if you look
at ..."<br>
<br>
Joe </p>
<pre>Joe Huang </pre>
<pre>White Box Technologies, Inc. </pre>
<pre>346 Rheem Blvd., Suite 108D </pre>
<pre>Moraga CA 94556 </pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com" target="_blank">yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com</a> </pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com" target="_blank">http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com</a> for simulation-ready weather data </pre>
<pre>(o) <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%28925%29388-0265" target="_blank">(925)388-0265</a> </pre>
<pre>(c) <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%28510%29928-2683" target="_blank">(510)928-2683</a> </pre>
<pre>"building energy simulations at your fingertips" </pre>
<p><br>
On 10/24/2013 12:15 PM, Joe Huang
wrote: </p>
<p>In my opinion, the easiest way to
get the ground temperatures would
not be through DOE-2 Hourly Reports,
although I'm sure that can be done,
but by reading them from the weather
file using the WTHFMT2 utility
program that converts the file from
binary to text. There are just 12
numbers for monthly ground
temperatures, shown on line 2 of the
*.FMT files. By the way, I think
that DOE-2 does some smoothing or
interpolation of the monthly ground
temperatures; right now if you look
at the hourly heat transfer through
Underground walls or floors, you'll
see a wierd staircase effect with
the same load for a whole month, and
then a jump to a different load the
next month, etc.<br>
<br>
Joe </p>
<pre>Joe Huang </pre>
<pre>White Box Technologies, Inc. </pre>
<pre>346 Rheem Blvd., Suite 108D </pre>
<pre>Moraga CA 94556 </pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com" target="_blank">yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com</a> </pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com" target="_blank">http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com</a> for simulation-ready weather data </pre>
<pre>(o) <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%28925%29388-0265" target="_blank">(925)388-0265</a> </pre>
<pre>(c) <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%28510%29928-2683" target="_blank">(510)928-2683</a> </pre>
<pre>"building energy simulations at your fingertips" </pre>
<p><br>
On 10/24/2013 11:05 AM, Simge
Andolsun wrote: </p>
<div>
<div>
<p>Dear eQuest Users, </p>
</div>
<div>
<p> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p>Would you please let me know
which report would give me the
deep ground temperatures used in
ground heat transfer
calculations of eQuest? I used
to select an hourly report
variable to make DOE-2.1e report
these values, but I am not sure
how to get these values from
eQuest. Would you help me with
this? </p>
</div>
<div>
<p> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p>Thank you very much in advance
for your help, </p>
</div>
<div>
<p>Best Regards, </p>
</div>
<div>
<p> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p>Simge Andolsun, PhD. </p>
</div>
</div>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>_______________________________________________ </pre>
<pre>Equest-users mailing list </pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org" target="_blank">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org</a> </pre>
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