<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)">
<!--[if !mso]><style>v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style><![endif]--><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Webdings;
panose-1:5 3 1 2 1 5 9 6 7 3;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Franklin Gothic Medium";
panose-1:2 11 6 3 2 1 2 2 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Avenir 55";}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
p.MsoAcetate, li.MsoAcetate, div.MsoAcetate
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Balloon Text Char";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:8.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";}
span.BalloonTextChar
{mso-style-name:"Balloon Text Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Balloon Text";
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";}
span.EmailStyle19
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:windowtext;}
span.EmailStyle20
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="2050" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>
<body lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Steve,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">To model a condensing boiler that is 96% efficient at 100% fire and 80°F return water temperature, enter “1.042” (=1/0.96) for the HIR if you use the default curve.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">For condensing boilers, the HIR-fPLR curve modifies fuel consumption based on boiler part-load ratio and return water temperature (HWR). For boilers, I believe the hourly part-load ratio is simply the hourly
load divided by the design boiler capacity.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">The default performance curve for high efficiency condensing boilers is “CondBlr-HiEff-HIR-fPLR&HWR”. The data points for this curve are shown below:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><img width="563" height="338" id="Picture_x0020_2" src="cid:image002.jpg@01CE91D0.4CAAF360"></span><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">The Indep-1 (X) values are part-load ratio, and the Indep-2 (Y) values are HWR (°F). Depend (Z) is the multiplier of HIR. Data point 1 is for PLR=1.0 (100% fire) and 80°F HWR, and the output for this point is
“1.000”, meaning no adjustment is made to the entered value for HIR. Therefore, the value you enter for HIR should be for 100% fire and 80°F. Your manufacturer data show 96% efficiency at this point, so you would enter 1.042 for your HIR.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">The other manufacturer data point you mention is 86.5% efficiency at 100% fire and 160°F. That corresponds with Data Point 17 in the default curve, with an output (HIR multiplier) of 1.121. If you enter HIR=1.042,
the hourly HIR will be 1.121x1.042=1.168. And 1/1.168=85.6%. This is close, though slightly less, than the manufacturer data. So the default HIR-fPLR curve does not perfectly match your boiler, but you may decide it is close enough. Alternatively, you could
create your own curve, and share it with me. ;)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">BTW, sorry for the delayed reply. Better late than never.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Bill<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Medium","sans-serif";color:black">William Bishop, PE, BEMP, BEAP, LEED AP
</span></b><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Medium","sans-serif";color:#006600">|</span></b><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Medium","sans-serif";color:black"> Pathfinder Engineers & Architects LLP<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Senior Energy Engineer<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:5.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">134 South Fitzhugh Street</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D">
</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Rochester, NY 14608<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">T: (585) 325-6004
</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Ext. 114</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D">
</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">F: (585) 325-6005</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><a href="mailto:wbishop@pathfinder-ea.com"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">bbishop@pathfinder-ea.com</span></a></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">
</span><span style="color:#1F497D"><a href="http://www.pathfinder-ea.com/"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">www.pathfinder-ea.com</span></a></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Webdings;color:green">P</span><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:green">
</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:green">Sustainability – the forest AND the trees.</span><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:Webdings;color:green">
</span><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Webdings;color:green">P</span><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:green"> </span><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Steve Tobin<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, December 23, 2011 2:45 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] Condensing Boiler HIR<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<table class="MsoNormalTable" border="0" cellpadding="0" width="100%" style="width:100.0%;background:#9099AE">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="padding:3.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"></td>
<td colspan="2" style="padding:3.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:white">This message's contents have been archived by the Barracuda Message Archiver.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt 3.75pt .75pt"></td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt 3.75pt .75pt"></td>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt 3.75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:white"><a href="http://ARCHIVER.PATHFINDER-EA.COM:8080/cgi-mod/getstubbedattachment.cgi/ATT689322.txt?charset=iso-8859-1&delivery=1324687517&len=253&md5=d422e97d31e6bbc701427a017d0a20fb&mid=9a53cf7de706c772ed529185f056351411d2d989cd07afdca2509b4d92d76ee73fcbfe6d">ATT689322.txt</a>
(253)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class="MsoNormal">All,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I am trying to settle a dispute within our office.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Our design utilizes Fulton Condensing Boilers with a design Return water temperature of 160 deg. F and an outdoor air reset schedule.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Our dispute is what to enter as the HIR for the boiler. The boiler is 86.5% efficient at 100% fire and 160 deg. F return water temperature, and 96% efficient at 100% fire and 80 deg F.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">It is my understanding from everything I have read that the HIR needs to be 1.156 which would be 86.5% efficient. Is this correct? Also how does the default e-quest HIR-fPLR curve function?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks for any help.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><img border="0" width="119" height="37" id="Picture_x0020_1" src="http://ARCHIVER.PATHFINDER-EA.COM:8080/cgi-mod/getstubbedattachment.cgi/image001.jpg?charset=iso-8859-1&cid=image001.jpg%4001CCC178.9F2DFFD0&delivery=1324687517&len=1778&md5=23a4be8e547b09b167fb8bab0250af62&mid=9a53cf7de706c772ed529185f056351411d2d989cd07afdca2509b4d92d76ee73fcbfe6d" alt="Description: cid:image001.jpg@01CCA5C8.288E04E0"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:6.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Avenir 55";color:#2D4D5E">Steven C. Tobin Jr., P.E.<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Avenir 55";color:#CC9900">PROJECT ENGINEER<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:12.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Avenir 55";color:#2D4D5E">25501 west valley parkway</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Avenir 55";color:#2D4D5E"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Avenir 55";color:#2D4D5E">olathe ks 66061<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Avenir 55";color:#2D4D5E">direct 913 344.0061<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Avenir 55";color:#2D4D5E">fax 913 345.0617<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>