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what do you mean by "i<span style="color:windowtext">f the building
approach for tenant fit-out defines a tenant design approach which
is different from the baseline.</span>.." ?<br>
<br>
for leed purposes if the building approach for tenant fit-out is
NOT leed compliant per the appendix 4 quote below (or CS grey box
at top of page 274 of the 2009 edition of the leed reference guide)
then the 90.1 baseline must be used in both proposed and baseline.
<br>
<br>
either the design approach is different from the baseline and
complies with the requirements mentioned (appendix 4/page 274 of
2009 edition) or it is not & the baseline must be used in both
the proposed and baseline simulations (no savings claimed by
whatever is actually in the design approach that does not meet the
leed requirements for sale/lease agreements).<br>
<br>
my edition of the 2009 edition, page 274, CS grey box title is:
Credit for Tenant-implement Efficiency Measures. it is in the eac1
section, right after the large requirement table in section 6.
calculations.<br>
<br>
On 8/5/13 7:07 AM, Ellis, David wrote:
<blockquote
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">Anthony,
Patrick, Bill and the list,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">I too have a
keen interest in answering the question below (which might
only be answered by USGBC):<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">Per the
C&S Appendix 2 guidance (reference noted in Bill’s
original question below),
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1
lfo1;text-autospace:none">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:Symbol;color:windowtext"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="color:windowtext">“</span><span
style="color:windowtext">The core and shell building is
defined as the parts of the building that are not tenant
space. Any constraints or guidance issued to the tenant,
such as a maximum level of lighting density or restrictions
on occupancy type, must be outlined in the tenant lease or
sales agreement (see Appendix 4).”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1
lfo1;text-autospace:none">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:windowtext"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="color:windowtext">“</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:FreightText-Book;color:windowtext">Model
the heating, ventilation, and air-conditioning (HVAC) system
as described in the design documents. If the HVAC system is
not yet designed, use the same HVAC system as the baseline
model, per ANSI/ASHRAE/IESNA Standard 90.1–2007, Table
G3.1.1A.</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif";color:windowtext">”</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:FreightText-Book;color:windowtext"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1
lfo1;text-autospace:none">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:Symbol;color:windowtext"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif";color:windowtext">“</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:FreightText-Book;color:windowtext">If
the team is pursuing any additional energy-saving
opportunities not associated with the core and shell areas,
outline the opportunities or requirements in the tenant
lease or sales agreement (see Appendix 4).</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif";color:windowtext">”</span><span
style="color:windowtext"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">And Appendix
4 (<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.usgbc.org/resources/appendix-4-tenant-lease-or-sales-agreement"><span
style="color:windowtext">http://www.usgbc.org/resources/appendix-4-tenant-lease-or-sales-agreement</span></a>
),<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1
lfo1;text-autospace:none">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:Symbol;color:windowtext"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="color:windowtext">“</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:FreightText-Book;color:windowtext">Compliance
through a binding tenant lease or sales agreement can be
pursued as an alternative to or in conjunction with the
standard approach to LEED for Core & Shell credit
documentation. Clearly identify which components of the
credit will be implemented as part of the developer’s scope
of work, and which portions will be part of the tenants’
scope of work and enforced through binding tenant lease or
sales agreements.</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif";color:windowtext">”</span><span
style="color:windowtext"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">Per guidance
above, for spaces not yet designed ASHRAE Baseline is to be
presumed, unless specific measures are designed in that
enhance the baseline approach. If those measures are in the
C&S design intended for tenant use, then they must be
included in any binding lease agreement material (such as
sales information or design guideline/specification).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">What is not
clear is if the building approach for tenant fit-out defines
a tenant design approach which is different from the
baseline. Does anyone have experience with being required to
show that the defined approach also performs?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">Dave<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:right"
align="right"><b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;text-transform:uppercase">David
Ellis<br>
</span></b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#595959">PE </span><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;color:#595959">(VA, MD, DC)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:right"
align="right"><span
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New Roman","serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:4.5in;padding:8.35pt 8.35pt 8.35pt
8.35pt;height:12.5pt" width="432">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt">HDR Architecture Inc</span></b><b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Times
New Roman","serif""><br>
</span></b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#595959">Energy
Services, New Construction</span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times
New Roman","serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#595959">1101 King
Street, Suite 400
</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#404040"> |
</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#595959">Alexandria,
VA 22314</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#404040"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#595959">703.647.7735
</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#404040">|
c:
</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#595959">703.343.6758</span><span
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New Roman","serif""><a
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href="http://www.hdrinc.com/markets/architecture"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">hdrarchitecture.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#666666"> </span><span
style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
Patrick J. O'Leary, Jr. [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:poleary1969@gmail.com">mailto:poleary1969@gmail.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, August 01, 2013 5:37 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] LEED Core & Shell
questions<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">i don't recall the page in the leed 3
manual right off hand but 1) tenant spaces can be modeled as
proposed type (hvac/water/lighting) if there is a legally
binding signed/or master lease agreement specifying the
proposed requirements that all tenants must adhere to and said
lease agreement is uploaded as part of the project
documentation. i.e. lower lighting lpd, increased hvac unit
efficiencies/power, and water saving fixtures.
<br>
<br>
and 2) there is an equest limit on the number of submeters a
project can have, and a core/shell project requires submeters
for each tenant to be separated out between process, lighting,
and hvac, so the number of meters can add up quickly if you're
dealing with a sizeable core/shell with many tenant spaces.<br>
<br>
On 8/1/13 1:36 PM, Anthony Hardman wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#00B0F0">See below</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Anthony Hardman, </b><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">PE, LEED AP BD&C</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Building
Performance Analyst</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:#00B050">The Green
Engineer, Inc.</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#00B050">Sustainable Design
Consulting</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">54
Junction Square Dr.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Concord,
MA 01742</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">O: (978)
610-2801</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">C: (720)
840-7862</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">The Green
Engineer, Inc. is a Certified B Corporation</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
Bishop, Bill [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bbishop@pathfinder-ea.com">mailto:bbishop@pathfinder-ea.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, August 01, 2013 7:11 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> eQUEST Users List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] LEED Core & Shell
questions</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">1. Should Tenant Spaces in LEED Core &
Shell projects be modeled with Appendix G systems for the
Baseline, and for the Proposed as well if there is no HVAC
design?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">-OR- Should Tenant Spaces be modeled as
“unconditioned” in both the Baseline and Proposed? (-OR- some
other option?)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#00B0F0">Finished tenant
spaces should be modeled as designed with terminal units
placed on the tenant meter. If unfinished, it should follow
Appendix G.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">2. What is the intent/purpose of the
requirement to model separate electric meters for lighting,
plug loads and process loads in the Tenant Spaces? Should the
cost from these meters be removed from the building energy
cost for EAc1 savings?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#00B0F0">Download the </span><span
style="color:#1F497D"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.usgbc.org/resources/cs-v20-eac1-spreadsheet">spreadsheet</a></span><span
style="color:#00B0F0">, it should answer your questions.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">3. IF HVAC systems are modeled in the
Tenant Spaces, should this energy be assigned to separate
meters as well?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.usgbc.org/resources/appendix-2-core-and-shell-energy-modeling-guidelines">LEED
Core & Shell Appendix 2</a> describes how the HVAC
systems should be modeled for the Core and Shell Building, but
not for the Tenant Spaces. Appendix 2 also describes the
requirement for modeling separate meters.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thank you,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Bill <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt">William
Bishop, PE, BEMP, BEAP, LEED AP | Pathfinder Engineers
& Architects LLP</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><img id="_x0000_i1025"
src="cid:part6.05070008.01050007@gmail.com" alt="Oh No Mr
Bill.jpg" border="0" height="93" width="67"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Senior
Energy Engineer</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:5.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">134
South Fitzhugh Street</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman ,
serif","serif"">
</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Rochester,
NY 14608</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">T:
(585) 325-6004 Ext. 114</span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman ,
serif","serif"">
</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">F:
(585) 325-6005</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:wbishop@pathfinder-ea.com"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">bbishop@pathfinder-ea.com</span></a><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">
</span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.pathfinder-ea.com/"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">www.pathfinder-ea.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Webdings;color:green">P</span><span
style="font-size:14.0pt">
</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt">Sustainability – the
forest AND the trees.</span><span
style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:Webdings;color:green">
</span><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Webdings;color:green">P</span><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;color:green"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif""><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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