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<p class="MsoPlainText">Dan,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">You bring up a section of Appendix G that I have never seen discussed on Equest-users or Bldg-Sim. The 90.1 User's Manual seems to explain G1.3 in terms of including or excluding a portion of the building from the Appendix G analysis.
You could choose not to model the existing portion of a building if you are doing an addition, if certain conditions are met. It is not clear to me whether or not this allows existing systems to be modeled for the baseline if they are not replaced as part
of a gut rehabilitation. Either way, we agree that you model Appendix G systems in the Baseline if there are new systems in the proposed design.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Bill<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">From: Daniel Knapp [mailto:danielk@arborus.ca] <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 4:34 PM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">To: Bishop, Bill<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Cc: Kent Beason; 'Nick Caton'; equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Subject: Re: [Equest-users] existing buildings/alterations<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">I guess to follow up the interpretation is as such:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">If the existing systems are left in place, the proposed and baseline are modelled identically according to the existing systems.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">If the existing systems are *replaced*, the proposed is modelled according to the replacements, and the baseline is modelled according to the 90.1 Appendix G requirements.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Best,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Dan<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Daniel Knapp [mailto:danielk@arborus.ca] <br>
Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 4:31 PM<br>
To: Kent Beason<br>
Cc: Bishop, Bill; 'Nick Caton'; equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] existing buildings/alterations<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">What about G1.3 where it states that <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">"only parameters related to the systems to be modified shall be allowed to vary. Parameters relating to unmodified existing conditions or to future building components shall be identical for determining both the baseline building performance
and the proposed building performance." <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Doesn't this apply to HVAC as well as the envelope? <o:p>
</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">—<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Daniel Knapp, PhD, P Phys, LEED® AP O+M<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><a href="mailto:danielk@arborus.ca"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">danielk@arborus.ca</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Arborus Consulting<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Energy Strategies for the Built Environment <a href="http://www.arborus.ca">
<span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">www.arborus.ca</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">76 Chamberlain Avenue<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Ottawa, ON, K1S 1V9<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Phone: (613) 234-7178 ext. 113<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Fax: (613) 234-0740<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">On 2013-07-25, at 4:03 PM, Kent Beason <<a href="mailto:kbeason@estesmcclure.com"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">kbeason@estesmcclure.com</span></a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> Bill,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> Okay...I would classify this as one of those nuances that Nick characterized earlier. It seems strange to me that this would only apply to the envelope, but after all, it isonly stipulated in Table G3.1 under Section 5f Building Envelope.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> To complicate the issue though, someone else's response was to use existing HVAC systems. Normally I would dismiss his response out of hand, but he was a LEED reviewer at one time and is more 90.1 knowledgeable than me currently.
I was about to send this message, sure that I would model baseline per Appendix G, until I thought to look in Section 6. Does Section 6.1.1.2 provide the adequate Exception to clarify that old HVAC systems must be modeled in the baseline for a renovation/alteration
project? The term "alteration" in the definitions appears to be applicable as an "addition" as shown in this Exception of 6.1.1.2. However, the verbiage "shall not be required to comply with this standard" implies that it's optional.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> Kent Beason<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> -------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> office - 903 581 2291<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> cell - 830 609 8904<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> From: Bishop, Bill [<a href="mailto:bbishop@pathfinder-ea.com"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:bbishop@pathfinder-ea.com</span></a>]<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 1:55 PM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> To: Kent Beason; 'Nick Caton'; <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">
<span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> Subject: RE: [Equest-users] existing buildings/alterations<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> Kent,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> I didn’t notice your message was only to me. I assumed it would be a matter of seconds before others replied in the negative. The “existing conditions” caveat applies only to the envelope. You must use the Appendix G baseline systems
and plants for the LEED Baseline, with the possible exception of the central plant for DES systems as you mention.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> ~Bill<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> From: Kent Beason [<a href="mailto:kbeason@estesmcclure.com"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:kbeason@estesmcclure.com</span></a>]<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 2:49 PM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> To: 'Nick Caton'; Bishop, Bill; <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">
<span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> Subject: RE: [Equest-users] existing buildings/alterations<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> Thanks for the feedback. As I asked Bill offline, and I feel it goes without saying, but never hurts to be thorough :-): this applies to the old HVAC systems too, correct? Obtaining the old HVAC system info could be a daunting
challenge unfortunately.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> I've learned alot about nuances... One area of this building is storefront (essentially 100%) single pane glass around the whole perimeter!
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> Kent Beason<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> -------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> office - 903 581 2291<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> cell - 830 609 8904<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> From: Nick Caton [<a href="mailto:ncaton@smithboucher.com"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:ncaton@smithboucher.com</span></a>]<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 1:32 PM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> To: Bishop, Bill; Kent Beason; <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">
<span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> Subject: RE: [Equest-users] existing buildings/alterations<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> Agreed. Take note there are a couple nuances between what’s written in 90.1 and what’s required by the LEED reviewership. I believe they draw a line in the sand where if more than 50% of a project is “retrofit” vs. NC by square footage,
then rotations go away.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> I just had 3 LEED projects wrap up at silver/gold where in the initial submission I used thoroughly documented prescriptive baseline envelopes and 4 rotations. The preliminary review commentary required changing the envelopes to remove
the rotations and match reality instead. The previous reality was (mostly) uninsulated grout filled block walls, single pane windows without film treatments, and zero wall insulation =D!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> As a net result, each of these projects jumped way up in unanticipated modeling credits. It was a good day.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> Outside the constraints of LEED, the closer your baseline models can reflect existing realities, the better and more informative the results of your models become for a retrofit analysis.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> ~Nick<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> <image001.jpg><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> NICK CATON, P.E.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> SENIOR ENGINEER<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> Smith & Boucher Engineers<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> 25501 west valley parkway, suite 200<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> olathe, ks 66061<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> direct 913.344.0036<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> fax 913.345.0617<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> <a href="http://www.smithboucher.com"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">www.smithboucher.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> From: <a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">
<span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</span></a>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> [<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</span></a>] On Behalf Of
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> Bishop, Bill<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 1:17 PM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> To: Kent Beason; <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">
<span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> Subject: Re: [Equest-users] existing buildings/alterations<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> Kent,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> Yes, for existing buildings, use the wall & roof assemblies, glazing properties etc. of the existing building for the Baseline values. Also, you don’t have to simulate in four orientations.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> Bill<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> William Bishop, PE, BEMP, BEAP, LEED AP | Pathfinder Engineers &
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> Architects LLP Senior Energy Engineer<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> 134 South Fitzhugh Street Rochester, NY 14608<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> T: (585) 325-6004 Ext. 114 F: (585) 325-6005<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> <a href="mailto:bbishop@pathfinder-ea.com"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">bbishop@pathfinder-ea.com</span></a>
<a href="http://www.pathfinder-ea.com"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">www.pathfinder-ea.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> P Sustainability – the forest AND the trees. P <o:p>
</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> From: <a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">
<span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</span></a>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> [<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</span></a>] On Behalf Of Kent
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> Beason<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 1:09 PM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> To: <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">
<span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> Subject: [Equest-users] existing buildings/alterations<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> This question isn't eQuest specific, but deals with 90.1 interpretation.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> For an existing building, with regards to shell alterations, G3.1.5-f says that "the baseline building shall reflect existing conditions prior to any revisions that are part of the scope of work being evaluated." Is this statement
as far-reaching as I believe, indicating that U-values, SHGC etc, listed in Tables 5.5 and Appendix A are ignored in a similar way as done in the proposed, since the "baseline" in this case is a real design, rather than a hypothetical baseline?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> Kent Beason<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> Estes, McClure & Associates, Inc.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> 3608 West Way<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> Tyler, TX 75703<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> -------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> office - 903 581 2721<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> cell - 830 609 8904<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> <o:p></o:p></p>
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