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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Kent,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">The exception to 6.1.1.2 (allowing existing systems to handle the HVAC needs of additions) provides a way to comply with Standard 90.1 without replacing existing systems. But your question is not about 90.1 compliance,
it is about Appendix G modeling (presumably for LEED New Construction). Table G3.1 (10.) is clear on the Baseline HVAC system requirements and provides no exception for existing buildings. There may be exceptions if this is for a utility incentive program
or some other application other than for a LEED NC model. Otherwise, I am not aware of any CIRs or other interpretations that would allow modeling existing systems in the Baseline.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">~Bill<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Kent Beason [mailto:kbeason@estesmcclure.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 25, 2013 4:03 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Bishop, Bill; 'Nick Caton'; equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] existing buildings/alterations<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Bill, <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Okay...I would classify this as one of those nuances that Nick characterized earlier. It seems strange to me that this would only apply to the envelope, but after all, it
<u>is</u> only stipulated in Table G3.1 under Section 5f Building Envelope.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">To complicate the issue though, someone else's response was to use existing HVAC systems. Normally I would dismiss his response out of hand, but he was a LEED reviewer at one time and is more 90.1 knowledgeable
than me currently. I was about to send this message, sure that I would model baseline per Appendix G, until I thought to look in Section 6. Does Section 6.1.1.2 provide the adequate Exception to clarify that old HVAC systems must be modeled in the baseline
for a renovation/alteration project? The term "alteration" in the definitions appears to be applicable as an "addition" as shown in this Exception of 6.1.1.2. However, the verbiage "shall not be required to comply with this standard" implies that it's optional.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Kent Beason<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">-------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">office - 903 581 2291<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">cell - 830 609 8904<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Bishop, Bill [<a href="mailto:bbishop@pathfinder-ea.com">mailto:bbishop@pathfinder-ea.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 25, 2013 1:55 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Kent Beason; 'Nick Caton'; <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">
equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] existing buildings/alterations<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Kent,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I didn’t notice your message was only to me. I assumed it would be a matter of seconds before others replied in the negative. The “existing conditions” caveat applies only to the envelope. You must use the Appendix
G baseline systems and plants for the LEED Baseline, with the possible exception of the central plant for DES systems as you mention.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">~Bill<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Kent Beason [<a href="mailto:kbeason@estesmcclure.com">mailto:kbeason@estesmcclure.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 25, 2013 2:49 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Nick Caton'; Bishop, Bill; <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">
equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] existing buildings/alterations<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Thanks for the feedback. As I asked Bill offline, and I feel it goes without saying, but never hurts to be thorough :-): this applies to the old HVAC systems too, correct? Obtaining the old HVAC system info
could be a daunting challenge unfortunately.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I've learned alot about nuances... One area of this building is storefront (essentially 100%) single pane glass around the whole perimeter! <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Kent Beason<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">-------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">office - 903 581 2291<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">cell - 830 609 8904<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Nick Caton [<a href="mailto:ncaton@smithboucher.com">mailto:ncaton@smithboucher.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 25, 2013 1:32 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Bishop, Bill; Kent Beason; <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">
equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] existing buildings/alterations<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Agreed. Take note there are a couple nuances between what’s written in 90.1 and what’s required by the LEED reviewership. I believe they draw a line in the sand where if more than 50% of a project is “retrofit”
vs. NC by square footage, then rotations go away.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I just had 3 LEED projects wrap up at silver/gold where in the initial submission I used thoroughly documented prescriptive baseline envelopes and 4 rotations. The preliminary review commentary required changing
the envelopes to remove the rotations and match reality instead. The previous reality was (mostly) uninsulated grout filled block walls, single pane windows without film treatments, and zero wall insulation =D!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">As a net result, each of these projects jumped way up in unanticipated modeling credits. It was a good day.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Outside the constraints of LEED, the closer your baseline models can reflect existing realities, the better and more informative the results of your models become for a retrofit analysis.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">~Nick <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><img border="0" width="119" height="37" id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image001.jpg@01CE8951.D172EFD0" alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB"></span><b><span style="font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E">NICK CATON, P.E.<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;color:#CC9900">SENIOR ENGINEER<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;color:#CC9900"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E">Smith & Boucher Engineers</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#CC9900"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E">25501 west valley parkway, suite 200<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E">olathe, ks 66061<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E">direct 913.344.0036<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#2D4D5E">fax 913.345.0617<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><a href="www.smithboucher.com" title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:blue">
</span></u><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Bishop, Bill<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 25, 2013 1:17 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Kent Beason; <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] existing buildings/alterations<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Kent,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Yes, for existing buildings, use the wall & roof assemblies, glazing properties etc. of the existing building for the Baseline values. Also, you don’t have to simulate in four orientations.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Bill<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Medium","sans-serif";color:black">William Bishop, PE, BEMP, BEAP, LEED AP
</span></b><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Medium","sans-serif";color:#006600">|</span></b><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Franklin Gothic Medium","sans-serif";color:black"> Pathfinder Engineers & Architects LLP<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Senior Energy Engineer<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:5.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">134 South Fitzhugh Street</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D">
</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Rochester, NY 14608<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">T: (585) 325-6004
</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Ext. 114</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D">
</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">F: (585) 325-6005</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><a href="mailto:wbishop@pathfinder-ea.com"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">bbishop@pathfinder-ea.com</span></a></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">
</span><span style="color:#1F497D"><a href="http://www.pathfinder-ea.com/"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">www.pathfinder-ea.com</span></a></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Webdings;color:green">P</span><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:green">
</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:green">Sustainability – the forest AND the trees.</span><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:Webdings;color:green">
</span><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Webdings;color:green">P</span><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:green"> </span><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Kent Beason<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 25, 2013 1:09 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] existing buildings/alterations<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">This question isn't eQuest specific, but deals with 90.1 interpretation.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">For an existing building, with regards to shell alterations, G3.1.5-f says that "the baseline building shall reflect existing conditions prior to any revisions that are part of the scope of work being evaluated." Is this statement as far-reaching
as I believe, indicating that U-values, SHGC etc, listed in Tables 5.5 and Appendix A are ignored in a similar way as done in the proposed, since the "baseline" in this case is a real design, rather than a hypothetical baseline?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Kent Beason<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Estes, McClure & Associates, Inc.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">3608 West Way<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Tyler, TX 75703<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">-------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">office - 903 581 2721<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">cell - 830 609 8904<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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