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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I have specified a DOAS as a single zone unit before and then designated it as the OSA From System in all of the other HVAC systems. If I leave the Design Outdoor Air and Exhaust flow inputs empty under the heat recovery tab, the outside air from the other HVAC systems does not show up in the ERV. But if I total the design outside air values and then input these into the Design Outdoor Air and Exhaust flows, the ERV works and seems to be representative. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=left style='border-collapse:collapse'><tr style='height:13.95pt'><td width=830 valign=top style='width:8.65in;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;height:13.95pt'><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 align=left width=816 style='width:8.5in;border-collapse:collapse'><tr style='height:13.0pt'><td width=816 valign=top style='width:8.5in;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in;height:13.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-element:frame;mso-element-frame-hspace:2.25pt;mso-element-wrap:around;mso-element-anchor-vertical:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:column;mso-height-rule:exactly'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span></b><b><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Rick Goeres, PE, LEED AP</span></b><b><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p></td></tr></table></td></tr><tr style='height:47.75pt'><td width=830 valign=top style='width:8.65in;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;height:47.75pt'><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 width=816 style='width:8.5in;border-collapse:collapse'><tr style='height:35.25pt'><td width=100 valign=top style='width:75.2pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;height:35.25pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-element:frame;mso-element-frame-hspace:2.25pt;mso-element-wrap:around;mso-element-anchor-vertical:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:column;mso-height-rule:exactly'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><img width=69 height=67 id="_x0000_i1031" src="cid:image001.jpg@01CE6101.F15C6970" alt=Logo></span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p></td><td width=716 valign=top style='width:536.8pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;height:35.25pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-element:frame;mso-element-frame-hspace:2.25pt;mso-element-wrap:around;mso-element-anchor-vertical:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:column;mso-height-rule:exactly'><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:black'>MUSGROVE ENGINEERING, P.A.</span></b><b><span style='font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:black'><br></span></b><span style='font-size:7.5pt;color:black'>Web: </span><span style='color:#1F497D'><a href="http://www.musgrovepa.com/" target="_blank" title="http://www.musgrovepa.com/"><span style='font-size:8.0pt;color:black'>www.musgrovepa.com</span></a></span><span style='font-size:7.5pt;color:black'><br>234 S. Whisperwood Way, Boise, ID 83709 <br>Ph: 208.384.0585 x324 <img border=0 width=12 height=12 id="Picture_x0020_2" src="cid:image002.gif@01CE6101.F15C6970" alt="cid:2.3167032686@web110213.mail.gq1.yahoo.com"> Fx:208.384.0765<br><b>Over 35 Years of Engineering Excellence<o:p></o:p></b></span></p></td></tr></table></td></tr></table><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Paul Diglio<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 03, 2013 5:54 PM<br><b>To:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br><b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] Fw: ERV on OA-From-System Comments from Jeff Hirsch<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Stormy:</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><br>In the past when I have modeled just an DOAS that did not have any heating or cooling capacity with and ERV was to add an ERV to each zone system that the DOAS fed. I used the same kw/cfm that the DOAS system had. So I chopped up the DOAS with it's ERV into smaller ERV's on each system. This seemed to work good.<br><br>The problem with the project that I am working on now, is that the DOAS feeds chilled beams. The DOAS chilled water coil and heating coil is sized in the design with the assumption that and ERV is conditioning the outside air. The DOAS has to dehumidify the air because the chilled beams cannot remove moisture as there is no provision for condensate removal. If I remove the ERV from the DOAS, the chilled and hot water coils are not large enough to condition the OA before it reaches the ERV on the chilled beams and I can't add a chilled or hot water coil to the ERV's on the chilled beams. So I loose the additional heat/cool capacity designed into the DOAS.<br><br>Confusing.<br><br>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Paul Diglio, CEM, CBCP<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>87 Fairmont Avenue<br>New Haven, CT 06513<br>203-415-0082<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><a href="http://www.pdigliollc.com" target="_blank">www.pdigliollc.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><hr size=1 width="100%" align=center></span></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Stormy L. Shanks <<a href="mailto:shankssl@kjww.com">shankssl@kjww.com</a>><br><b>To:</b> Paul Diglio <<a href="mailto:paul.diglio@sbcglobal.net">paul.diglio@sbcglobal.net</a>><br><b>Sent:</b> Mon, June 3, 2013 7:15:24 PM<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] ERV on OA-From-System Comments from Jeff Hirsch</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Wow, thank you for sharing that. That’s definitely a bummer. I just did a test on a model that I did with DOAS where I had defined an ERV in the DOAS system. I deleted the ERV from the system, and my energy was lower than when the ERV was included. Not good. I should have known better. I suppose I will start modeling ERV/DOAS settings in spreadsheets outside of eQUEST. Or in other software.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellpadding=0 width=491 style='width:368.25pt'><tr><td width=45 style='width:33.75pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1D2F8B'><img border=0 width=40 height=40 id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image003.png@01CE6101.F15C6970" alt="cid:image001.png@01CE0924.38506AB0"></span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td width=440 style='width:330.0pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='color:#1D2F8B'>Stormy L. Shanks, PE<br></span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1D2F8B'>Mechanical Engineer</span><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr><td colspan=2 style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1D2F8B'>2882 106<sup>th</sup> St, Des Moines, IA 50322<br>D 515.334.4315</span><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr><td colspan=2 style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1D2F8B'><a href="http://www.kjww.com/" target="_blank"><span style='color:#1D2F8B'>web</span></a> | <a href="http://www.facebook.com/kjwwengineering" target="_blank"><span style='color:#1D2F8B'>Facebook</span></a> | <a href="http://twitter.com/kjww" target="_blank"><span style='color:#1D2F8B'>Twitter</span></a> | <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/company/kjww-engineering-consultants" target="_blank"><span style='color:#1D2F8B'>LinkedIn</span></a> </span><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr></table><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Paul Diglio<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 03, 2013 5:17 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] ERV on OA-From-System Comments from Jeff Hirsch</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Just wanted to share an e-mail from Jeff. I did not know that an ERV on a OA-From system was not supported by eQuest. That explains why I could never get the correct airflows on this type of design.<br><br>Unfortunately almost every project I work on does specify a VAV DOAS with an ERV to supply ventilation air to some type of HVAC system, such as VRF indoor coils, chilled beams or PTHP units. I will have to try the work around Jeff suggested.</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Paul Diglio, CEM, CBCP</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>87 Fairmont Avenue<br>New Haven, CT 06513<br>203-415-0082</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><a href="http://www.pdigliollc.com" target="_blank">www.pdigliollc.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>----- Forwarded Message ----<br><b>From:</b> Jeff Hirsch <<a href="mailto:James.J.Hirsch@gmail.com" target="_blank">James.J.Hirsch@gmail.com</a>><br><b>To:</b> Paul Diglio <<a href="mailto:paul.diglio@sbcglobal.net" target="_blank">paul.diglio@sbcglobal.net</a>><br><b>Sent:</b> Mon, June 3, 2013 12:17:58 PM<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] OA From System Question</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Setting your OA system (ERU1) to be vav and having the ERV on it will not work correctly. If you need ERV you must place your ERV in the IU system and use that system to supply the conditioned OA. ERV on a OA-FROM system is not supported. VAV on an OA-FROM system is possibly not what you want but I cannot tell what you are trying to do. An IU system has a central constant volume air supply with each zone then having zone coil to do the zone thermostat controlled conditioning via room air flow induced as a constant ratio supply air fro the IU (the induction-ratio). So it seems you can use the IU system as your ERU system supplying the zones. If there is some other reason you used an OA-FROM system, then perhaps my suggestions don’t apply, but the ERV and VAV comments always apply.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='color:black'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center></span></div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='color:black'>Jeff Hirsch</span></b><span style='color:black'><br>James J. Hirsch & Associates<br>12185 Presilla Road - Camarillo, CA 93012-9243 USA<br>phone: (805) 553-9000 mobile: (805) 532-1045 fax: (805) 532-2401<br>email: <a href="mailto:James.J.Hirsch@gmail.com" target="_blank">James.J.Hirsch@gmail.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'> <a href="mailto:paul.diglio@sbcglobal.net" target="_blank" title="paul.diglio@sbcglobal.net">Paul Diglio</a> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Sent:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'> Monday, June 03, 2013 6:11 AM</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>To:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank" title="equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Subject:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'> [Equest-users] OA From System Question</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Morning:<br><br>I am trying to model a chilled beam system as induction units. The primary air is supplied by an ERU. I set the outside air to 0 on the chilled beams HVAC systems tab.<br><br>In the chilled beam zone tab I set the outside air to the primary CFM and the overall CFM to the induced air flow.<br><br>Per the eQuest help menu, "The sum of the OA requirements for all SYSTEMs that reference an OA-FROM-SYSTEM is used to set the referenced OA-FROM-SYSTEM value for MIN-OUTSIDE-AIR, SUPPLY-FLOW as well as adjust the referenced OA-FROM-SYSTEM directly served ZONE maximum and minimum flows for both heating and cooling." <br><br>But per my hourly reports, the ERU is not supplying the necessary amount of primary air and in the summer the ERU flow drops to .01 CFM.<br><br>Attached are the project files. Any ideas?<br><br>Thank you,</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Paul Diglio, CEM, CBCP</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>87 Fairmont Avenue<br>New Haven, CT 06513<br>203-415-0082</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><a href="http://www.pdigliollc.com" target="_blank">www.pdigliollc.com</a> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='color:black'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center></span></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>_______________________________________________<br>Equest-users mailing list<br><a href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org" target="_blank">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org</a><br>To unsubscribe from this mailing list send a blank message to <a href="mailto:EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG" target="_blank">EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG</a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center></div><p class=MsoNormal><i>This message and any attachments contain information intended for a specific party and may include sensitive or confidential material. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not read, copy, use, or disclose to others. Please notify the sender of the delivery error by reply and then permanently delete this message and all attachments.</i> <br> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>