<html><body><p><font size="2" face="sans-serif">Hi James,</font><br><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif">Thank you for your sharing. I am doing a district chilled water project at present, your information is very useful.</font><br><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif">I made the Baseline model with chillers and cooling towers as indicated in Apppendix G. The proposed model is modeled with one air-cooled chiller with average efficiency+piping loss.</font><br><br><font size="2" face="sans-serif">One thing I am not clear is what's the chiller curve like in your model? Because it is hard to set curves as a constant value. For example, a chiller's EIR curve should be a quadratic curve, how do you make it into a constant value?<br></font><table border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tr valign="top"><td width="150" rowspan="2" valign="middle"><font size="1" face="Arial">Best Regards!</font><p><font size="1" face="Arial"> </font><p><img src="cid:1__=C7BBF1D5DF8F031A8f9e8a@bureauveritas.com" width="144" height="123"><font size="1" face="sans-serif"><br></font></td><td width="678" valign="bottom"><font size="1" color="#0000FF" face="宋体"><b><br>游超 </b></font><font size="1" color="#0000FF" face="Arial"><b> Fiona You</b></font><font size="1" color="#0000FF" face="宋体"><b><br>高级</b></font><font size="1" color="#0000FF" face="Arial"><b>LEED</b></font><font size="1" color="#0000FF" face="宋体"><b>咨询师 </b></font><font size="1" color="#0000FF" face="Arial"><b> Senior LEED Consultant</b></font></td></tr>
<tr valign="top"><td width="678" valign="bottom"><font size="1" face="宋体">必维国际检验集团 工业与设施事业部</font><font size="1" face="Arial"> Bureau Veritas Industry & Facilities Division</font><font size="1" face="宋体"><br>中国上海市浦东新区陆家嘴软件园</font><font size="1" face="Arial"> 8/F Building No.8 Pudong Lujiazui Software Park,</font><font size="1" face="宋体"><br>峨山路</font><font size="1" face="Arial">91</font><font size="1" face="宋体">弄</font><font size="1" face="Arial">120</font><font size="1" face="宋体">号</font><font size="1" face="Arial">8</font><font size="1" face="宋体">号楼</font><font size="1" face="Arial">8</font><font size="1" face="宋体">楼</font><font size="1" face="Arial"> </font><font size="1" face="宋体">邮编</font><font size="1" face="Arial">: 200127 No.120, Lane 91, E Shan Road, Shanghai 200127, P.R.C.<br>Tel: +86 21 6886 0643 Ext.8557 Fax: +86 21 6886 1421 Mobile: +86 180 1750 1596<br>Web : </font><a href="http://www.bureauveritas.cn/"><font size="1" color="#0000FF" face="Arial"><u>www.bureauveritas.cn</u></font></a><font size="1" color="#0000FF" face="Arial"><u> (CHN) | </u></font><a href="http://www.bureauveritas.com/"><font size="1" color="#0000FF" face="Arial"><u>www.bureauveritas.com</u></font></a><font size="1" color="#0000FF" face="Arial"><u> (Global)</u></font></td></tr>
<tr valign="top"><td width="828" colspan="2"><font size="2" color="#008000" face="Webdings"> P </font><font size="2" color="#800000" face="Arial"><b><i> </i></b></font><font size="2" color="#008000" face="Arial"><b><i>Save a tree. Don</i></b></font><font size="2" color="#008000" face="宋?"><b><i>’</i></b></font><font size="2" color="#008000" face="Arial"><b><i>t print this e-mail unless it is really necessary</i></b></font></td></tr></table>
<p><font size="2" face="sans-serif"> </font><br><img width="16" height="16" src="cid:2__=C7BBF1D5DF8F031A8f9e8a@bureauveritas.com" border="0" alt="Inactive hide details for James Hess <JHess@tmecorp.com>"><font size="2" face="sans-serif">James Hess <JHess@tmecorp.com></font><br><br><br>
<table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tr valign="top"><td style="background-image:url(cid:3__=C7BBF1D5DF8F031A8f9e8a@bureauveritas.com); background-repeat: no-repeat; " width="40%"><ul style="padding-left: 72pt"><font size="1" face="sans-serif"><b>James Hess <JHess@tmecorp.com></b></font><font size="1" face="sans-serif"> </font><br><font size="1" face="sans-serif">Sent by: equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</font><p><font size="1" face="sans-serif">2013-04-06 03:36</font></ul></td><td width="60%"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tr valign="top"><td width="1%"><img width="58" height="1" src="cid:4__=C7BBF1D5DF8F031A8f9e8a@bureauveritas.com" border="0" alt=""><br><div align="right"><font size="1" face="sans-serif">To</font></div></td><td width="100%"><img width="1" height="1" src="cid:4__=C7BBF1D5DF8F031A8f9e8a@bureauveritas.com" border="0" alt=""><br>
<ul style="padding-left: 7pt"><font size="1" face="sans-serif">Adam S <adam.scherba@gmail.com></font></ul></td></tr>
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<ul style="padding-left: 7pt"><font size="1" face="sans-serif">"equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" <equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org></font></ul></td></tr>
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<ul style="padding-left: 7pt"><font size="1" face="sans-serif">Re: [Equest-users] CHW loop process load</font></ul></td></tr>
<tr valign="top"><td width="1%"><img width="58" height="1" src="cid:4__=C7BBF1D5DF8F031A8f9e8a@bureauveritas.com" border="0" alt=""><br><div align="right"><font size="1" color="#0000FF" face="sans-serif">Ref</font></div></td><td width="100%"><img width="1" height="1" src="cid:4__=C7BBF1D5DF8F031A8f9e8a@bureauveritas.com" border="0" alt=""><br></td></tr></table>
<table border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tr valign="top"><td width="58"><img width="1" height="1" src="cid:4__=C7BBF1D5DF8F031A8f9e8a@bureauveritas.com" border="0" alt=""></td><td width="336"><img width="1" height="1" src="cid:4__=C7BBF1D5DF8F031A8f9e8a@bureauveritas.com" border="0" alt=""></td></tr></table></td></tr></table><br><font size="3" face="serif">Those are good questions.</font><br><br><font size="3" face="serif">Answer to 1st question = yes</font><br><br><font size="3" face="serif">Answer to second is the following:</font><br><br><font size="3" face="serif">To be practical about this and simplify the modeling, we create a constant efficiency air cooled chiller to simulate the default DESv2.0 plant.</font><br><br><font size="3" face="serif">The EIR is entered equal to 0.839 kw/ton, which equates to 4.4 COP + 5% losses.</font><br><br><font size="3" face="serif">This represents the energy usage of the plant chillers, plant pumps, and cooling tower.</font><br><br><font size="3" face="serif">We further create and apply performance curves that keep the EIR the same versus load and temperatures. In other words, Avg EIR = Max EIR = Min EIR = the EIR we enter into eQuest.</font><br><br><font size="3" face="serif">It's easier to do this with an air cooled chiller because then you don't have to worry about a cooling tower and tower water pump in the model.</font><br><br><font size="3" face="serif">This approach is simple and it works. I've used it on several LEED projects involving district chilled water systems.</font><br><br><font size="3" face="serif">We probably give up some savings with this approach, but it's a lot of work to correctly model the actual performance of an actual CHW system in accordance with DESv2.0. If this isn't in our modeling scope of work, we use the stipulated efficiency route.</font><br><br><font size="3" face="serif">Hope this helps.</font><br><br><font size="3" face="serif">P.S. The stipulated efficiency approach does not work out well when modeling heating water and steam systems because the default efficiency numbers for those systems are pretty bad. That's not the case with chilled water, at least if you are comparing to a Baseline based on air cooled equipment. If the building was big enough to require chilled water as a baseline, this approach will not work that well, and you would have to pivot to a new approach. Comparing the stipulated efficiency against a App G Baseline water cooled chiller plant would probably result in little to no savings in the cooling equipment category.<br></font><br><font size="3" face="serif">Thanks!</font><br><br><font size="3" face="serif">Regards,</font><br><br><font size="3" face="serif">JAH</font><br><font size="3" face="serif"><br>On Apr 5, 2013, at 1:51 PM, "Adam S" <</font><a href="mailto:adam.scherba@gmail.com"><font size="3" color="#0000FF" face="serif"><u>adam.scherba@gmail.com</u></font></a><font size="3" face="serif">> wrote:<br></font><ul style="padding-left: 36pt"><font size="3" face="serif">Do you interpret the USGBC guidance for baseline district energy systems to be 4.4 COP + 5% losses averaged over the year? Meaning that the chiller in your model should be modeled with a better EIR so that the average annual COP calculated using the PS-C report is 4.4? </font><br><br><font size="3" face="serif">Their use of the term "average efficiency" seems a bit vague.</font><br><br><font size="3" face="serif">Thanks,</font><br><br><font size="3" face="serif">-Adam</font><br><font size="3" face="serif"><br></font><br><font size="3" face="serif">On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 3:24 AM, James Hess <</font><a href="mailto:JHess@tmecorp.com" target="_blank"><font size="3" color="#0000FF" face="serif"><u>JHess@tmecorp.com</u></font></a><font size="3" face="serif">> wrote:</font><ul style="padding-left: 9pt"><font size="2" color="#1F497D" face="Calibri">I definitely agree with that suggestion, versus reinventing the wheel. Our experience with the RMI tool is that it works. There seems to be a quirk regarding a little shifting due to DST, but that’s a very small thing in the grand scheme of things. I want to say we tested it and the annual average value coming out of eQuest was ~ 99.3% of the average input value. Close enough! </font><font size="2" color="#1F497D" face="Wingdings">J</font><p><font size="2" color="#1F497D" face="Calibri"> </font><p><font size="2" color="#1F497D" face="Calibri">Also, I don’t know if you are modeling the other buildings because a GBCI reviewer said you had to do that (assuming this is a LEED project) in order to ensure that correct part load ratios on the chillers operating profile are appropriately accounted for. I got that sort of comment on a recent project and my response was something to the effect of … I could do that, but since we aren’t getting paid by the owner to model buildings outside of the project scope just to make the chiller modeling more accurate, instead I will just use the default efficiency allowed by the DESv2.0 guidelines for water cooled chiller plants </font><font size="2" color="#1F497D" face="Wingdings">à</font><font size="2" color="#1F497D" face="Calibri"> 4.4 COP + 5% losses = ~ 0.839 kW/ton on average.</font><p><font size="2" color="#1F497D" face="Calibri"> </font><p><font size="2" color="#1F497D" face="Calibri">That saved a lot of time with that change because if you do that, you don’t have to model any other buildings served by the system. If you are comparing against air cooled equipment for the Baseline, you still get a decent amount of savings. I probably left some savings on the table because the plant had high efficiency VFD water cooled chillers, and VFDs on the pumps and cooling tower. I’m positive that the annual efficiency was much better than 0.839 kW/ton, but (the way I look at this) we have to balance the level of effort on energy modeling versus the fees we are getting for the modeling.</font><p><font size="2" color="#1F497D" face="Calibri"> </font><p><font size="2" color="#1F497D" face="Calibri">Hope this helps! </font><font size="2" color="#1F497D" face="Wingdings">J</font><p><font size="2" color="#1F497D" face="Calibri"> </font><p><font size="2" color="#1F497D" face="Calibri">Regards,</font><p><font size="1" color="#339966" face="Calibri"><b> </b></font><p><font size="2" color="#339966" face="Calibri"><b>JAH</b></font><p><font size="1" color="#339966" face="Calibri"><b> </b></font><p><font size="2" color="#339966" face="Calibri"><b><i>James A. Hess, PE, CEM, BEMP</i></b></font><font size="2" color="#1F497D" face="Calibri"><br>Energy Engineer<br>TME, Inc.<br>Little Rock, AR</font><p><font size="2" color="#1F497D" face="Calibri">Mobile: </font><a href="tel:%28501%29%20351-4667" target="_blank"><font size="2" color="#0000FF" face="Calibri"><u>(501) 351-4667</u></font></a><p><font size="2" color="#1F497D" face="Calibri"> </font><p><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><b>From:</b></font><font size="2" face="Tahoma"> </font><a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank"><font size="2" color="#0000FF" face="Tahoma"><u>equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</u></font></a><font size="2" face="Tahoma"> [mailto:</font><a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank"><font size="2" color="#0000FF" face="Tahoma"><u>equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</u></font></a><font size="2" face="Tahoma">] </font><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><b>On Behalf Of </b></font><font size="2" face="Tahoma">Javed Iqbal</font><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><b><br>Sent:</b></font><font size="2" face="Tahoma"> Thursday, March 28, 2013 1:55 PM</font><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><b><br>To:</b></font><font size="2" face="Tahoma"> Kimberly Wiebe</font><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><b><br>Cc:</b></font><font size="2" face="Tahoma"> </font><a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank"><font size="2" color="#0000FF" face="Tahoma"><u>equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</u></font></a><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><b><br>Subject:</b></font><font size="2" face="Tahoma"> Re: [Equest-users] CHW loop process load</font><p><font size="3" face="serif"> </font><p><font size="3" color="#333399" face="Georgia">You should use RMI tool to generate schedule which will eventually gives you schedule in INP format.</font><p><font size="3" face="serif"> </font><p><font size="3" color="#333399" face="Georgia">Here is the link to download it..</font><p><font size="3" face="serif"> </font><p><a href="http://www.rmi.org/Content/Files/EMIT1.4.zip" target="_blank"><font size="3" color="#0000FF" face="Georgia"><u>http://www.rmi.org/Content/Files/EMIT1.4.zip</u></font></a><p><font size="3" face="serif">On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 1:41 PM, Kimberly Wiebe <</font><a href="mailto:Kimberly.Wiebe@burohappold.com" target="_blank"><font size="3" color="#0000FF" face="serif"><u>Kimberly.Wiebe@burohappold.com</u></font></a><font size="3" face="serif">> wrote:</font><p><font size="2" face="Arial">Hello, </font><p><font size="2" face="Arial"> </font><p><font size="2" face="Arial">I am modelling a central cooling plant that serves many buildings on an college campus. For some buildings I am building the geometry and inputting internal gains. For other buildings I have annual 8760 cooling load profiles. If I want to add these annual cooling load profiles to the CHW loop as process loads, would I have to make 365 day schedules (and 52 weeks)? If so I will write some sort of text generator out of an excel file and paste in the .inp, but before I do want to see if there was any other way.</font><p><font size="2" face="Arial"> </font><p><font size="2" face="Arial">Thank you, </font><p><font size="2" face="Arial">Kim</font><p><font size="2" face="Arial"> </font><p><font size="1" face="Arial"><b>Kim Wiebe</b></font><p><font size="1" face="Arial">Direct: </font><a href="tel:%2B1%20310%20945%204813" target="_blank"><font size="1" color="#0000FF" face="Arial"><u>+1 310 945 4813</u></font></a><p><a href="mailto:kimberly.wiebe@burohappold.com" target="_blank"><font size="1" color="#0000FF" face="Arial"><u>kimberly.wiebe@burohappold.com</u></font></a><p><font size="3" face="serif"> </font><p><font size="3" face="serif"><br>_______________________________________________<br>Equest-users mailing list</font><font size="3" color="#0000FF" face="serif"><u><br></u></font><a href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org" target="_blank"><font size="3" color="#0000FF" face="serif"><u>http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org</u></font></a><font size="3" face="serif"><br>To unsubscribe from this mailing list send a blank message to </font><a href="mailto:EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG" target="_blank"><font size="3" color="#0000FF" face="serif"><u>EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG</u></font></a><p><font size="3" face="serif"><br></font><p><font size="3" face="serif"> </font><p><font size="3" face="serif">-- </font><p><font size="3" face="serif"> </font><div align="center"><br><font size="3" face="Verdana"> </font><p><font size="3" color="#333399" face="Georgia">Javed Iqbal, LEED AP, CEA</font><p><font size="3" color="#333399" face="Georgia">Energy Analyst </font><p><font size="3" color="#3366FF" face="serif"> </font></div><br><font size="3" color="#3366FF" face="serif"> </font><p><font size="3" color="#3366FF" face="serif"> </font><p><font size="3" face="serif"> </font><p><font size="3" face="serif"> </font><br><font size="3" face="serif"><br>_______________________________________________<br>Equest-users mailing list</font><font size="3" color="#0000FF" face="serif"><u><br></u></font><a href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org" target="_blank"><font size="3" color="#0000FF" face="serif"><u>http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org</u></font></a><font size="3" face="serif"><br>To unsubscribe from this mailing list send a blank message to </font><a href="mailto:EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG"><font size="3" color="#0000FF" face="serif"><u>EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG</u></font></a><font size="3" face="serif"><br></font></ul><tt><font size="2">_______________________________________________<br>Equest-users mailing list<br></font></tt><tt><font size="2"><a href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org</a></font></tt><tt><font size="2"><br>To unsubscribe from this mailing list send a blank message to EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG<br></font></tt><br></ul><BR>
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