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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Robert,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Cell M30 (Allowed Fan Power) is auto-calculated by the template based on the baseline system type, supply flow rate, pressure drop adjustments, and the corresponding CFMd entered by user in rows 33-44. Cell M29 (System Fan Power) which adds up user-entered supply, return/relief, and exhaust fan power, can then be compared to the auto-calculated value in M30 to verify compliance. I found the template to be pretty user friendly; the only catch is that all HVAC-related tabs are inter-connected, so you have to fill out the General HVAC tab in order for other HVAC tabs to behave properly.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Maria <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> RobertWichert [mailto:robert@wichert.org] <br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, March 25, 2013 12:32 PM<br><b>To:</b> Maria Karpman<br><b>Cc:</b> 'Bishop, Bill'; 'Nick Caton'; equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Baseline Fan power calculation<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>It seems to just sum them up in cell M29. Is that what you meant, Maria? I don't see any calculations, they just ask for you to input the fan power.<br><br><br>Am I missing something?<br><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>Robert Wichert P.Eng. LEED AP BD&C<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>+1 916 966 9060<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>FAX +1 916 966 9068<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>===============================================<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=MsoNormal>On 3/25/2013 8:24 AM, Maria Karpman wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>FYI, the newest LEED EAp2 spreadsheet (attached) has embedded calculations for the baseline fan power on Air-Side HVAC Details tab, which I think is quite handy.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Maria </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> <a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Bishop, Bill<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, March 25, 2013 11:01 AM<br><b>To:</b> RobertWichert; Nick Caton; <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Baseline Fan power calculation</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Robert,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I’m sure Nick is typing furiously as I write this, but I’ll probably finish before him.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Taking a quick look at the spreadsheet that Nick attached to his email, it calculates baseline fan power using the method described in Appendix G and 6.5.3.1.1. Fan efficiency is included in the P<sub>fan</sub> calculation per G3.1.2.9.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Fan efficiency is from ASHRAE 90.1, Table 10.8 as described in G3.1.2.9.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Bill</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>William Bishop, PE, BEMP, LEED AP | Pathfinder Engineers & Architects LLP</span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Senior Energy Engineer</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:5.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>134 South Fitzhugh Street</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Rochester, NY 14608</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>T: (585) 325-6004 </span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Ext. 114</span><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>F: (585) 325-6005</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><a href="mailto:wbishop@pathfinder-ea.com"><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>wbishop@pathfinder-ea.com</span></a></span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><a href="http://www.pathfinder-ea.com/"><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>www.pathfinder-ea.com</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Webdings;color:green'>P</span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;color:green'> </span><span style='font-size:7.5pt;color:green'>Sustainability – the forest AND the trees.</span><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:Webdings;color:green'> </span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Webdings;color:green'>P</span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:green'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> <a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>RobertWichert<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, March 25, 2013 10:52 AM<br><b>To:</b> Nick Caton; <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Baseline Fan power calculation</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>I believe I have written about this in the past, but since this seems to be on-topic, I'll bring it up again.<br><br>The theoretical fan power equation, Fan BHP = (cfm x static press "w.c.) / (6356 x fan efficiency) can be used to calculate the theoretical fan BHP, but you need the fan efficiency. This seems to be NOT the way the BHP is being calculated by the spreadsheet that was attached previously.<br><br>Is there a reason for that?<br><br>Was there an assumed fan efficiency used in the spreadsheet, and was it based on anything particular, or just a conservative assumption?<br><br><br>Thanks!<br><br><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>Robert Wichert P.Eng. LEED AP BD&C<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>+1 916 966 9060<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>FAX +1 916 966 9068<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>===============================================<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=MsoNormal>On 3/25/2013 7:34 AM, Nick Caton wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Hi Vamshi,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I advise carefully reviewing the footnotes under Table 6.5.3.1.1A, which include procedure for determining baseline fan power adjustments.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>1.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>P<sub>fan</sub> represents the sum power of all fans in a given baseline system (with exception to baseline systems #6/#8, fan powered VAV boxes).</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>2.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Again, there is not a separate supply/return power calculation (see answer #1). You can however account for adjustments present in separate airstreams from the proposed design. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>3.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Probably not. Review the difference between CFM<sub>S</sub> and CFM<sub>D</sub> carefully at the cited Table. A CFM quantity representing the airflow each element encounters (CFM<sub>D</sub>) should be applied against each pressure drop adjustment, not an ‘aggregate’ of supply+return. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>You may also find the attached resource published by 7group helpful to cement your procedural understanding of how to arrive at the sum total for “A.” </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>~Nick</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><img border=0 width=119 height=37 id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image001.jpg@01CE2958.D3067640" alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB"></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt'> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b>NICK CATON, P.E.</b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#CC9900'>SENIOR ENGINEER</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#CC9900'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'>Smith & Boucher Engineers</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'>25501 west valley parkway, suite 200</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'>olathe, ks 66061</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'>direct 913.344.0036</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'>fax 913.345.0617</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><a href="www.smithboucher.com" title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue'> </span></u><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>vamshi ranga<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, March 25, 2013 8:17 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] Baseline Fan power calculation</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Hi All,<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I have a doubt regarding calculating fan power as per ASHRAE 90.1-2007.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>My proposed system has, supply return and exhaust fans separately with kW and cfm mentioned for each fan.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>So, for calculating baseline fan power, <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>1. should I calculate it separately for each fan type? <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>2. can I take pressure drop adjustment both in supply and return fan power calculation?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>3. should I sum all the cfms of supply, return and exhaust and than apply pressure drop adjustments to aggregated cfm.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Kindly help me out in solving the doubt. If you have any example fan power calculations, or web links those could guide me regarding this, plz do share them.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Thanks in advance.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Regards,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Vamshi.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Equest-users mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>To unsubscribe from this mailing list send a blank message to <a href="mailto:EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG">EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG</a><o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='color:windowtext'><hr size=1 width="100%" noshade style='color:#A0A0A0' align=center></span></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:windowtext'>No virus found in this message.<br>Checked by AVG - <a href="http://www.avg.com">www.avg.com</a><br>Version: 2012.0.2240 / Virus Database: 2641/5703 - Release Date: 03/25/13</span><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><hr size=1 width="100%" noshade style='color:#A0A0A0' align=center></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>No virus found in this message.<br>Checked by AVG - <a href="http://www.avg.com">www.avg.com</a><br>Version: 2012.0.2240 / Virus Database: 2641/5703 - Release Date: 03/25/13<o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>