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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Kathryn,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>If you do submit you model for a LEED project you will not be permitted to make any pressure drop adjustments to the Baseline residential system fan power calculations. The formula for system types 1 and 2 in Section G3.1.2.9 is: Pfan = CFMs*0.3. Note that there is NO “A” factor in the formula. If the project intends to pursue LEED certification, you may wish to consider an inquiry to GBCI before you overestimate the projected savings (and those ever-important points) and find yourself trying to justify your initial modeling approach to the powers that be.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Just come friendly advice </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D'>J</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Kathryn Kerns<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, February 27, 2013 6:24 PM<br><b>To:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br><b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] Baseline PTAC Fan Energy for a Proposed Merv13 + Return Duct System - Goodness Me I had No Idea<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Well everyone, it seems I have hit a nerve with my original inquiry and thank you all for your responses. After reading over the responses I think I am going to run both the baseline and proposed fans continuously (it seems the most conservative case) and use 0.0003 kw/cfm for the baseline fan energy but add an A value equal to 1.4 to cover the proposed system Merv 13 filters and return ductwork.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I think I will also modify the EIR cooling equation to use 300 w/cfm fan power instead of 365 w/cfm power. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>So baseline PTAC fan power = CFM<i>s</i> *0.0003 + (1.4* CFM<i>s</i>/4131) which works out to be 0.00057 kw /cfm for a small 0.83 efficient motor<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>and baseline PTAC Cooling EIR will have a 0.10 constant instead of a 0.012167<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>If I ever have to submit this to LEED I will probably regret it, but it seems to be the most logical approach. Of course logic and LEED don’t necessarily go together. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Oh well, thanks again for the feedback.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank" title="blocked::mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank" title="blocked::mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Kathryn Kerns<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, February 25, 2013 5:57 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank" title="blocked::mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] Baseline PTAC Fan Energy for a Proposed Merv13 + Return Duct System</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Everyone, I have been modeling some dormitories with a proposed HVAC system involving a DOA with a full exhaust air HX and MERV 13 filters. The puzzle is what to do about the baseline PTAC fan power energy? If I use 0.3 w/cfm as Appendix G suggests, my PTAC baseline system does not account for a fully ducted return\exhaust or MERV 13 filters. The commercial fan power equation for systems 3-8 accounts for this, but I am not supposed to use that formula for System 1 and 2.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Another puzzle is if I develop an cooling EIR value for my baseline PTAC using the 365 w/kCFM conversion rule and equate that with 0.3 w/cfm, what happened to the other 65 w/kCFM? </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Maybe ARI 310/380 doesn’t use 365 w/cfm fan power? I read it and didn’t find any statement regarding fan power requirements, but I assume it works the same as ARI 210/240?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I am wondering if a compromise of </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> PTAC fan power = CFM<i>s</i> *0.000365 + A where A= PD*CFM<i>s</i> /4131 and PD = 1.4</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>might be a reasonable solution?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> PTAC fan power = 0.00063 kw/cfm</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Does anyone else have experience with this puzzle?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=section1 style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><strong><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Kathryn Kerns</span></strong><o:p></o:p></p><p class=section1 style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><em><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";font-style:normal'>Systems Specialist</span></b></em><o:p></o:p></p><p class=section1 style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><em><b><span style='font-variant:small-caps;color:teal;font-style:normal'>BCE</span></b></em><strong><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-variant:small-caps;color:teal'> </span><span style='font-variant:small-caps;color:teal'>Engineers, Inc.</span></strong><o:p></o:p></p><p class=section1 style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><strong><span style='font-size:9.0pt;color:black'>| Ph: 253.922.0446 | Fx: 253.922.0896 |</span></strong><span style='font-size:7.0pt;color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=section1 style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><strong><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Kathryn Kerns</span></strong><o:p></o:p></p><p class=section1 style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><em><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";font-style:normal'>Systems Specialist</span></b></em><o:p></o:p></p><p class=section1 style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><em><b><span style='font-variant:small-caps;color:teal;font-style:normal'>BCE</span></b></em><strong><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-variant:small-caps;color:teal'> </span><span style='font-variant:small-caps;color:teal'>Engineers, Inc.<o:p></o:p></span></strong></p><p class=section1 style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><strong><span style='font-size:9.0pt;color:black'>| Ph: 253.922.0446 | Fx: 253.922.0896 |</span></strong><span style='font-size:7.0pt;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>