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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#17365D">Gaston,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#17365D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#17365D">I agree with Mike. When I have run into the issue in the past, I have solved it by reviewing my schedules and internal loads to make sure they are realistic.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#17365D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#17365D">Thanks</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#17365D">,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#17365D"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#17365D">David Griffin<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#B8CCE4">Energy Analyst<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#17365D">ETC Group, LLC<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#17365D">801.278.1927 ext. 128<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Busman, Michael R [mailto:MBusman@chevron.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, December 06, 2012 12:34 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Gastón Michaud F.; equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Eric Fischel J.<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Baseline CFM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Gaston,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I don’t know if this will help you or not. I don’t claim to be an expert in eQUEST, however, I started doing hourly simulations about 1983 and in another life, spent 17 years with Hilton Hotels Corp., so I do
know a little about how hotels operate.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I have found that simulations aren’t the greatest for sizing systems versus a load design program, except maybe in the case of a central plant where load diversity can be accounted for. In a hotel, you need
to design for worst case or almost worse case conditions in the individual spaces even though they may not operate that way. A couple of examples. For the guest room PTAC units, you probably need to size for the draperies open, guests in the room, and maybe
the TV or a couple of lights on. In reality, the guest is out of the room most of the day and the maid probably closes the draperies and turns off the TV and lights. So, you might simulate how the room is occupied and used versus sizing the PTAC capacity.
As another example, if the guest is out of the room, he/she is probably out of the hotel, in the restaurant, or perhaps, in a meeting in the ballroom. Since the guest cannot be in two places at once, you need to look at the sizing versus the operation of
the public spaces. Generally a ballroom area will have a large prefunction/registration/coffee break area outside the ballroom. If you decide you want 2 systems, one for the ballroom and one for the prefunction area, you’ll size the systems for the peak
load of those spaces. If you decide to design a single VAV system for both the ballroom and prefunction area, you will have a smaller system than the total capacity of the two separate systems as it will track the load as guests move back and forth between
the ballroom and prefunction area.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">It sounds like the VRF systems for the first 3 floors were designed/sized on the airside for the peak load of the separate spaces, but the cooling capacity took diversity into account, similar to a central chiller
plant.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">You might want to look at how you defined the separate spaces and the amount of internal load diversity from the hourly schedules.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I hope John Aulbach will chime in. He’s been using DOE-2 since you had to chisel the calcs on a stone tablet and was a consultant to Hilton for many years, so he also knows how hotels operate.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">My best,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Mike Busman<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Michael R. Busman, CEM</span></b><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Lead Project Engineer II</span><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Chevron Energy Solutions</span></b><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">A Division of Chevron U.S.A., Inc.</span><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><a href="mailto:mbusman@chevron.com">mbusman@chevron.com</a></span><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Gastón Michaud F.<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, December 06, 2012 10:11 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Eric Fischel J.<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] Baseline CFM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Good morning everyone,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">We are having an issue with the calculated total fan flow of the baseline case and was wondering if someone could help me out. We are modeling a 12 floor hotel, with a VRF system in the first three floors and PTAC’s in the remaining 9
(rooms); for a total conditioned area of about 92325 sf. The baseline case is modeled with a system 2 per ASHRAE appendix G. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The following table summarizes our issue:<o:p></o:p></p>
<table class="MsoNormalTable" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" style="border-collapse:collapse">
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<td width="161" valign="top" style="width:121.1pt;border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</td>
<td width="174" valign="top" style="width:130.5pt;border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-left:none;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Baseline case<o:p></o:p></b></p>
</td>
<td width="162" valign="top" style="width:121.5pt;border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-left:none;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Proposed case<o:p></o:p></b></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="161" valign="top" style="width:121.1pt;border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-top:none;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Total cooling capacity<o:p></o:p></b></p>
</td>
<td width="174" valign="top" style="width:130.5pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">281.5 tons<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td width="162" valign="top" style="width:121.5pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">247 tons<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
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<td width="161" valign="top" style="width:121.1pt;border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-top:none;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Design airflow rate<o:p></o:p></b></p>
</td>
<td width="174" valign="top" style="width:130.5pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">39700 cfm<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td width="162" valign="top" style="width:121.5pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">80500 cfm<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">We used the automatic calculation from eQuest (leaving both capacity and fan flow blank) for the baseline case, and the actual mechanical design for the proposed case. For some reason, the baseline calculation for the fan flow seems to
be very low, and was wondering if anyone has had a similar issue regarding the automatic calculations from eQuest. If so, has anyone found a solution?
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">If we analyze other estimates, eQuest is calculating about 0.43 cfm/sf for the baseline, which also seems very low compared to other projects we have worked with. We are also thinking of using the following formula to estimate the baseline
fan flow: Sensible btu=1.09*cfm*dT; but with this approach we get a fan flow about 50% more that the proposed, which also seems unlikely. Any suggestions for estimating the baseline fan flow which LEED reviewers accept?
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks you very much, hope someone can help us out. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""> Ing. Gastón Michaud F.
<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""> Tel.: (506) 2222-7529<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Calle 30, Avenida 0 y 2. San José, Costa Rica<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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