<div>Dave (and the list),</div><div> </div><div>Before you make a decision on this, make sure to consult all of the relevant LEED Interpretations and ASHRAE Interpretations. For your question, LEED Interpretation #10237 (recently issued) is very applicable:</div>
<div> </div><div>"The project team is inquiring about documenting improvements in a process-energy-intensive manufacturing plant. Generally, equipment covered by ASHRAE 90.1 requirements can be modeled according to ASHRAE 90.1 Appendix G requirements regardless of whether it serves standard building loads, process loads, or a combination of both. If the equipment is either being used in a manner that is incompatible with ASHRAE 90.1 requirements or is equipment not regulated by ASHRAE 90.1, project teams should compare the proposed design to the industry standard..."</div>
<div> </div><div>It goes on from there, but this LEED Interpretation can be cited to reviewers when submitting the project. Also, reviewers have indicated that they will defer to an ASHRAE Interpretation if one is available, and ASHRAE "Official" Interpretations are free in cost, though it can take some time if it is a complex question.<br clear="all">
</div><div>Jeremy R. Poling, PE, LEED AP+BDC</div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div><br>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 7:01 PM, The Watt Doctors - Dave Weigel <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:Dave.Weigel@thewattdoctors.com" target="_blank">Dave.Weigel@thewattdoctors.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid" class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:"Calibri";font-size:12pt">
<div>Thank you again, Nick!</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Your thinking is in line with mine. The debate at the project
meetings is interesting. We have about 250 Tons of process cooling water
on average. We can either hold that constant or take credit for savings
with a more efficient chilled water plant. I have been thinking that we
would take credit for it, but also keep everyone apprised of the cost in LEED
points if it is rejected in review. Good documentation will help.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Best to y’all,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Dave</div>
<div style="font-family:"Calibri";font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;text-decoration:none;display:inline">
<div style="font:10pt/normal tahoma;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal">
<div><font size="3" face="Calibri"></font> </div>
<div style="background:rgb(245,245,245)">
<div><b>From:</b> <a title="ncaton@smithboucher.com" href="mailto:ncaton@smithboucher.com" target="_blank">Nick Caton</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Monday, October 22, 2012 7:25 PM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a title="Dave.Weigel@thewattdoctors.com" href="mailto:Dave.Weigel@thewattdoctors.com" target="_blank">The Watt Doctors - Dave Weigel</a>
; <a title="equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
</div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] Another process load
question</div></div></div>
<div> </div></div><div><div class="h5">
<div style="font-family:"Calibri";font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;text-decoration:none;display:inline">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";font-size:11pt">I’ve
often intentionally differentiated space conditioning equipment for spaces
housing significant process loads between my baseline/proposed models without
incident from the LEED reviewership, per your example #1. Commonly
occurring scenarios include server rooms and elevator machine rooms with small
mini-split DX cooling. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";font-size:11pt"><u></u><u></u></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";font-size:11pt">I’ll
maintain, this is something that can and should remain open for interpretation
by the modeler – not one mold will fit every project. There may be cases
where modeling consumptions/loads and the corresponding space conditioning
discretely is overly complex or disadvantageous, in which case holding
everything constant between the models would be an acceptable approach. A
self-contained walk-in freezer with its condenser at the exterior comes to mind
as something I probably wouldn’t break apart (but either interpretation could
work).<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";font-size:11pt"><u></u><u></u></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";font-size:11pt">Whatever
you choose, I wouldn’t flip-flop too much on the issue within the same
project. Try to take a unified interpretation and apply that to both
baseline and proposed for each space/case – it will make documentation for EAp2
spreadsheets easier later. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";font-size:11pt"><u></u><u></u></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";font-size:11pt">~Nick<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";font-size:11pt"><img alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB" src="cid:D047533DE6CD470D874ABD42CB0D566E@WattDoxPrimary" width="119" height="37"></span><b><span style="color:rgb(45,77,94);font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";font-size:11pt"><u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:rgb(45,77,94);font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";font-size:11pt"><u></u><u></u></span></b> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:rgb(45,77,94);font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif"">NICK CATON,
P.E.</span></b><b><span style="color:rgb(45,77,94);font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif""><u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(204,153,0);font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";font-size:7.5pt">SENIOR
ENGINEER<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(204,153,0);font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";font-size:7.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(45,77,94);font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";font-size:10pt">Smith
& Boucher Engineers</span><span style="color:rgb(204,153,0);font-size:7.5pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(45,77,94);font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";font-size:10pt">25501
west valley parkway, suite 200<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(45,77,94);font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";font-size:10pt">olathe,
ks 66061<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(45,77,94);font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";font-size:10pt">direct
<a href="tel:913.344.0036" target="_blank" value="+19133440036">913.344.0036</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(45,77,94);font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";font-size:10pt">fax
<a href="tel:913.345.0617" target="_blank" value="+19133450617">913.345.0617</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";font-size:11pt"><a title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com"><span style="color:blue;font-size:10pt">www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span style="color:blue;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";font-size:10pt">
</span></u><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";font-size:11pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";font-size:11pt"><u></u><u></u></span> </p>
<div>
<div style="border-width:1pt medium medium;border-style:solid none none;border-color:rgb(181,196,223) currentColor currentColor;padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";font-size:10pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";font-size:10pt">
<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>The Watt
Doctors - Dave Weigel<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, October 20, 2012 6:32
PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b>
[Equest-users] Another process load question<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u> </p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Hi
Friends,<u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">This is more of a LEED
/ ASHRAE 90.1 question, but I see a lot of experience in this group. I
hope someone has some experience with a LEED review on this issue. It may
be a moot point, but I can’t go into the arguments below without a little
backup.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">A debate has arisen
among engineers, architects, and a LEED AP regarding the cooling energy for
space conditioning in an area with process loads. This is specifically related
to 90.1-2007 exception G3.1.1.b, and to a literal vs. extended interpretation of
90.1-2007 part 3.2, definitions:<u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Process energy :
energy consumed in support of a manufacturing, industrial, or commercial process
[implying medical equipment as well] other than conditioning spaces and
maintaining comfort and amenities for the occupants of the
building.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Process load: the load
on a building resulting from the consumption or release of process
energy.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">This may be a moot
point if it has already been the subject of a LEED 2009 CIR, or if there is an
official ASHRAE interpretation or addendum. I haven’t been able to find
any of those.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">The
liberal-interpretation side views it this way:</span></strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">The definition of
process load says “consumption or release,” and says nothing about removing the
heat from the space.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Process energy is the
total input energy to a process. The additional energy to cool the space
in which the process resides is not process energy, it is a building space
conditioning load.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Example 1: A
server room, MRI room, or a room full of autoclaves is allowed to have system 3
(packaged DX VAV) in the baseline model under this exception rather than system
7 (chilled water VAV). While the process load itself must be simulated the
same in baseline and proposed design cases, energy savings from the higher
efficiency of the space cooling system is included in the bottom line
savings. This includes the cooling load imparted to the space by the
process load, such as the waste heat from the autoclaves, MRI, or
servers.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><u></u><u></u></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";font-size:11pt"><u></u><u></u></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">The
conservative-interpretation side views it from the polar opposite
position</span></strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">. They contend
that all input process energy plus the energy required to remove its waste heat
must be held constant, no matter if the cooling is done by a building air system
or by the building chilled water plant.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">For the definition of
process energy, “energy consumed in support of manufacturing, industrial, or
commercial process,” they claim that the energy to remove waste heat is “in
support of” the process and must be counted as process
load.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">In eQuest terms, the
conservative side says we must extract the hourly cooling loads that are due to
each and every piece of waste heat from process equipment. Then we re-insert
that cooling load profile as process energy and hold it constant from the
baseline to the proposed design as an external load on the meter. So, the
MRI process load turns into the input power plus the energy to cool
it.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">I'm not saying which
side I'm on. I would not be a big fan of extracting and manipulating all those
load profiles, especially in the case of that welder.
<u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Dave<u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">David R. Weigel,
PE<u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Managing
Member<u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">1189 Golden Circle
SW, Lilburn GA 30047<u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><a href="tel:678-353-6941" target="_blank" value="+16783536941">678-353-6941</a>
office <a href="tel:901-619-1716" target="_blank" value="+19016191716">901-619-1716</a>
cell<u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
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