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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Hector,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I don’t know if this will help or not.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Many years ago, I had to do the analysis of converting two large high bay vehicle maintenance buildings from steam unit heaters to closed combustion infrared heating. The steam plant was extremely oversized
and inefficient as several of the buildings originally served by the plant had been demolished. I used a bin temperature spreadsheet for the analysis in this case.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Since one of the benefits of infrared heating is greatly reduced stratification, we took temperature measurements at floor level, normal thermostat height, and ceiling level using an infrared gun. This was done
on a typical “cold” day. Knowing the building height, we used the average temperature of ceiling level and floor level (or was it thermostat height???) as the “space temperature” for envelope loads. We probably ended up understating the roof heat loss due
to the higher temperature at ceiling level. For the proposed case, we did reduce the space temperature setpoint as infrared heats people and objects first, and not air, which is why it is possible to maintain a comfortable environment at a lower space temperature.
My memory isn’t the best, but I think we used 60 deg. as the proposed setpoint based on similar, previous projects.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">If you’re contemplating closed combustion infrared heating, you’ll have some fan power to consider, but it’s probably less than the furnaces. The combustion efficiency should be better also.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Mike Busman<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Michael R. Busman, CEM</span></b><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Lead Project Engineer II</span><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Chevron Energy Solutions</span></b><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">A Division of Chevron U.S.A., Inc.</span><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">145 S. State College Blvd.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Brea, CA 92821
</span><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Direct 714-671-3561</span><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Fax 714-671-3438</span><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">eFax 866-420-0335 (Include my Full Name followed by "CAI:MHTZ" on Cover Sheet)</span><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Mobile 310-387-2083</span><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><a href="mailto:mbusman@chevron.com">mbusman@chevron.com</a></span><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Stormy L. Shanks<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, September 14, 2012 11:50 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Hector Lamprea; equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Infra -red heating garage<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Your infrared system won’t have fan power associated with it while your furnace in the baseline will have fan power. You may also be able to justify a lower space setpoint temperature in the proposed model than
in the baseline since you’re using radiant heat. It seems like ASHRAE has published something about what space setpoint temperatures should be used when you’re designing radiant heating compared to forced air heating? Does anyone else remember that? Maybe
it’s in ASHRAE 55? Normally, you would have to model setpoint temperatures the same in both models.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Stormy Shanks, PE</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Mechanical Engineer <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><a href="http://www.kjww.com/"><span style="color:black">www.kjww.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Hector Lamprea [<a href="mailto:hector.lamprea@fundyeng.com">mailto:hector.lamprea@fundyeng.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, September 14, 2012 1:42 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Stormy L. Shanks; <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">
equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Infra -red heating garage<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="color:#1F497D">Thanks Stormy,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="color:#1F497D">I guess this a good estimate, however I would like to show saving over a furnace system ( Most of the Infra-red pipes manufacturers claim between 30 to 50 % energy saving over a conventional furnace
system )<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="ES-CO" style="color:#1F497D">Hector Lampra, P. Eng, LEED AP, CEM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="ES-CO" style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Stormy L. Shanks
<a href="mailto:[mailto:shankssl@kjww.com]">[mailto:shankssl@kjww.com]</a> <br>
<b>Sent:</b> September-14-12 3:36 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Hector Lamprea; <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Infra -red heating garage<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Hi, Hector – I recently did this for a LEED submission and had to do an exceptional calculation. There isn’t a method of modeling infrared heating directly in eQUEST. I modeled it as electrical baseboard heat
and assigned a sub-meter to report the kWh used by the baseboard system in the space. Once I figured out the energy usage in kWh used by the baseboard, I converted it to natural gas therms and then divided by the average efficiency of the infrared system.
I submitted a narrative explaining this, and the LEED reviewer accepted the calculation method. I’m sure there are more accurate (and more time-consuming) methods for modeling it, though.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Stormy Shanks, PE</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Mechanical Engineer<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><a href="http://www.kjww.com/"><span style="color:black">www.kjww.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
<a href="mailto:[mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org]">[mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org]</a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Hector Lamprea<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, September 14, 2012 1:27 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] Infra -red heating garage<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Hi Guys,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Any idea how to simulate a infra-red tube heating system for a garage.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#003F87">Hector Lamprea,</span></b><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#003F87"> P, Eng. LEED AP</span></i><i><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#003F87">.
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</span></i><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#003F87">PO Box 6626<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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