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<font size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">I'm sorry
about my tardy response. This email has not worked this week.
Finally got it back up yesterday. You are correct about the
baseboards coming on first and providing a dominating response.
This causes the load to shift off the main AHU which is counter
to what you want to happen. I run into it a lot with PSZ roof
tops with gas heat and electric baseboards. You are
controlling a space with 2 thermostats. In eQuest we don't get
the second thermostat so that we can set it lower and just use
the baseboards to tune the differentials rather than being the
primary source of heat, the way they should be used. As you
noticed Josh it is also not very energy efficient. An easy
model, all the unmet hours disappear and life appears good. One
other thing to remember is all load programs are cooling flow
based as this air stream has the smallest delta T and the
default for airflow is 0.5 cfm/SF. This is most of the time too
low. eQuest works on the cooling and then just kind of dumps
the heat in at the end almost as an after thought. </font></font><font
size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">The way I
model these is not to use the baseboards until the very last
step. I adjust the air flows to the different spaces and drive
down the unmet hours. I'm also paying attention to the problem
spaces, and start moving the control space around as well to see
which T-stat location works best. The best way to tell if your
flows are undersized is to monitor SV-A, the cooling and heating
capacity. If these are increasing as you increase the airflow
then you are still adding load to the primary AHU. If you have
the baseboards in the equation then eQuest seems to take the
easy way out. </font>I also work with the space reports so I
know the peak loads of each space and also factor in the OA to
give me an idea of how much flow each requires with the delta T
I'm using. Once the main flow is the best you can get it, you can
also manipulate each space as well. You are basically setting up
the flow chart for the balancers to use. I manipulate the
throttling range a little, the default is a little tight but be
careful with that as it can mask a poorly tuned system.</font> <font
size="+1"> Note that you are mostly working on the cooling side,
it doesn't have baseboard tuning to do your final adjustments.
This admittedly takes many simulations to get it running nice but
it does get the main unit properly loaded to it's maximum
potential. I find it handy to do one change at a time and keep
track of the results on a pad of paper so you know when you have
overshot and can back up. Then bring in the baseboards. They are
just one season trimming units and really not important to the
whole system. If you are still having major problems with unmet
hours then your spaces are just too different and you should be
considering a second AHU or a simulated VAV system. To do either
in eQuest requires a second AHU to get the second T-stat. This
all may seem a little crude, it is, but it is necessary to
manipulate eQuest sometimes to get it to do what you want it to
do. It is a fancy tool but it can hide a multitude of problems if
you don't rigorously inspect the detailed output and determine
exactly what is happening.</font><br>
<font size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Bruce
Easterbrook P.Eng.<br>
Abode Engineering<br>
<br>
</font></font>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 25/06/2012 01:51 PM, Nick Caton
wrote:<br>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Josh, <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I understand
what you’re getting at… I was designing around (but not
modeling…) an identical setup with electric baseboards some
months ago. The real-world control scheme was similar to
what eQuest assumes – the baseboards had their own separate
thermostats which kicked them on when the (leaky) envelope
started cascading cold air – so the VRF units in theory
wouldn’t deal with the brunt of the heating losses in that
regard (as such the terminal cassettes could be sized
smaller). That said, we recognized the VRF’s would be the
better candidate when the baseboards weren’t necessary, so
relays/BAS were set up to schedule baseboards off during the
moderate seasons, and I believe the baseboards thermostats
were also set lower than the space heating setpoints to
encourage the heatpumps to kick on earlier.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><br>
Sequencing baseboards for eQuest is something I know has
come up on the lists before but is not something I’ve dealt
with personally yet… I think Bruce and Pasha cc’ed here
might be among the ranks of those who’ve dealt with that
particular challenge, but you’re probably be best off
addressing the whole list for a quick response!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Best of luck,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">~Nick<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
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CATON, P.E.</span></b><b><span
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
Josh Greenfield [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:JGreenfield@primerachicago.com">mailto:JGreenfield@primerachicago.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 25, 2012 8:08 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nick Caton<br>
<b>Subject:</b> eQUEST: Baseboard control question<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Nick…quick eQUEST baseboard control
question…<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I have a building with VRF heating/cooling,
and HW baseboard radiators (due to the poor envelope of the
existing building)…my issue is that eQUEST sequences on the
baseboard first and then the zone air-side heating (VRF) which
is causing my heat loads to go way up…I want the VRF heating
to sequence first as that it much more efficient…any
thoughts??<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">From eQUEST:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">THERMOSTATIC Baseboard heating is
controlled by a thermostat located in the zone. The program
assumes that the baseboards add heat as required, up to their
maximum capacity, to maintain zone air temperature within the
heating throttling range. <b><span style="color:red">If there
is a heating load the baseboards are sequenced on first.
If the baseboards cannot meet the entire heating load,
heating from the zone's air system, if available, will
then be activated.<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><br>
<b>Josh Greenfield</b>, </span><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">PE,
REP, LEED AP BD+C, BEMP, CEM</span><span
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312.242.6392 Direct<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
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