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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-CA link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>It depends on the temperature and RH in the room and the pool temp. If the pool temp is higher than the room temp, it will always evaporate water into the air, regardless of RH. If the air temp is higher than the pool temp, then at a certain temp and RH water will condense from the air into the pool. The dryer the air, the warmer the room temp will need to be before that happens. At 100% RH it will occur as soon as the air temp exceeds the room temp.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Mike<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><i><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Michael Wilson, P.Eng., Enerficiency Consulting<o:p></o:p></span></i></p><p class=MsoNormal><i><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>PO Box 1911 - 458 Abbs Rd., Gibsons, BC V0N 1V0 | 604-886-9864 | www.enerficiency.ca<o:p></o:p></span></i></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ery Djunaedy<br><b>Sent:</b> May-03-12 2:52 PM<br><b>To:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] fishpond<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Folks,<br><br>A side issue on the same topic.<br><br>I have gone through some literature on this topic. All the calculation methods that I found are actually methods to calculate evaporation rate from the pool with the ultimate goal to calculate (a) the heating load to maintain the water temperature and (b) the latent load for the air above the water. The underlying assumption used in all methods is that all the evaporation heat is taken from the water (and nothing from the air).<br><br>I investigated this matter because I want to quantify the cooling effect of an indoor pool to a naturally ventilated room. If I used the calculation methods from the literature that I found (including Shah method below) what I end up with is a latent load and a sensible load (both positive into the zone) that will be added to the room, simply because the method assumes that all the evaporation heat comes from the water (and nothing from the air).<br><br>I found this very hard to swallow because we all know for a fact that people in hot climate use pools to cool down the indoor temperature. I am not talking about fountain or sprayer, which has a totally different cooling mechanism where all of the evaporation heat comes from the air. I am talking about pools, either indoor pool or pools surrounding the building.<br><br>Is there any literature out there on the cooling effect of pools?<br><br>Thanks,<br><br>Ery<br><br><br><br>On 05/03/2012 09:32 AM, Bishop, Bill wrote: <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Cristian,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>You can model it but you will need to calculate the latent and sensible loads yourself, at least if you are using eQUEST. Without having experience with fishponds, I would approach it like a natatorium (indoor swimming pool) and use the ASHRAE Handbook – HVAC Applications Chapter 5 for design guidance and loads calculations. Also, see this article: <a href="http://hpac.com/humidification-dehumidification/simplified-calculating-evaporation-1011/">http://hpac.com/humidification-dehumidification/simplified-calculating-evaporation-1011/</a> for alternate method of calculating evaporation loads. Based on your drawings, I would also research state-of-the-art for aquaculture facilities, as that looks to be what you are designing.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Bill</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><a href="mailto:wbishop@pathfinder-ea.com"><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;text-decoration:none'><img border=0 width=481 height=118 id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image001.png@01CD2946.486E4C50"></span></b></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Cristian Salvador Jara Toro<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 03, 2012 11:15 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] fishpond</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Sorry, but I meant "design" instead of "model"... because I don´t think to model a room with water in it be possible...<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 10:53 AM, Cristian Salvador Jara Toro <<a href="mailto:cristian.jara.toro@gmail.com" target="_blank">cristian.jara.toro@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Greetings!<br><br>I have to model a room with a fishpond (more like close to a several fountains where fishes will be inside). WxLxH=9x13x2.5 in meters.<br>Has anybody modeled something like that? <br><br>So, what I need to know is about ventilation rates for a room like that, wich contains water and fishes swimming in it, but my worry is about condensations, so if anybody has some paper or standard, please let me know.<br><br>Thanks in advance...<span style='color:#888888'><br clear=all><br><span class=hoenzb>-- </span><br><span class=hoenzb>Cristian Jara Toro</span><br><span class=hoenzb>Cel: 6 207 8566</span><br><br><br></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><br clear=all><br>-- <br>Cristian Jara Toro<br>Cel: 6 207 8566<br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Equest-users mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/equest-users-onebuilding.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>To unsubscribe from this mailing list send a blank message to <a href="mailto:EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG">EQUEST-USERS-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG</a><o:p></o:p></pre><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><hr size=1 width="100%" noshade style='color:gray' align=center></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>No virus found in this message.<br>Checked by AVG - <a href="http://www.avg.com">www.avg.com</a><br>Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2425/4975 - Release Date: 05/03/12<o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>