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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>You just need to make sure and get all the inputs input equally realistic for both models to get a true comparison. Often times you will find that a DX system is more efficient, in particular, if you are using a VRF system that utilizes VFD’s on all the fans and the compressors, with HRV/DCV outdoor air system utilizing design economizer and with tight DDC variable control of all zones and systems. A chiller/boiler system always has pump power, that uses additional power, that has to be overcome. That said, a chiller system, if put together with an evaporative condenser or cooling tower, with evaporative, so called, “free cooling”, economizer, with VFD’s on pumps/fans/compressors, VAV system, great variable control of chilled water and hot water for zone control, might have equal or lower energy use than a VRF system and may have great control. Often the first cost of chiller boiler system is higher. Both can be great systems, depending on how they are set up and controlled.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><i><font size=6 color=blue face="Bradley Hand ITC"><span style='font-size:24.0pt;font-family:"Bradley Hand ITC";color:blue;font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>David A. Bastow </span></font></i></b><font color="#1f497d"><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><i><font size=3 color="#1f497d" face="Rockwell Extra Bold"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Rockwell Extra Bold","serif";color:#1F497D;font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>McClure Engineering, Inc. </span></font></i></b><font color="#1f497d"><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> David Eldridge [mailto:dse@grummanbutkus.com] <br><b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, April 24, 2012 10:35 AM<br><b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br><b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> Matt Clough<br><b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Equest-users] EEM vs. new model<o:p></o:p></span></font></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>eQUEST’s defaults will be important here for pressure drop in the two systems, ability to modulate airflow or chilled water flow, ability to economize (although Google shows your company near the Gulf, so if this is a local auto dealer then maybe economizer won’t be important).</span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The use of the chiller system’s cooling efficiency and pump power will be important since these are known, and may vary from the wizard’s suggestion. You’ll also need to make sure the DX system efficiency and fan power is realistic.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The part-load performance of the system could also be important if the hours for the shop and show room are different – this could be a case where two or more right-sized DX systems may be a better match than one chiller, depending on the magnitude for the loads and if the zones have wildly different hours of operation.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>My suggestion would be to set eQUEST aside for a half hour, and just run through a table for the fan power, pump power, and cooling efficiency for each of the two cases and see if the answer jumps out at you. If you get pointed strongly in one direction, then review the eQuest files more closely to be sure you are capturing all of the part-load effects.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Regarding your ASHRAE 90.1 baseline suggestions, that might be your best “baseline” and then compare the proposed CHW and an enhanced DX system against that, but shouldn’t be necessary other than as Nick suggests for a QA reference.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>David</span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><u><font size=2 color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> </span></font></u><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>David S. Eldridge, Jr., P.E., LEED AP BD+C, BEMP, BEAP, HBDP</span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color="#244061" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#244061;font-weight:bold'>Grumman/Butkus Associates</span></font></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><u><font size=2 color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> </span></font></u><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Matt Clough<br><b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, April 24, 2012 7:37 AM<br><b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Nick Caton; <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Equest-users] EEM vs. new model</span></font><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>I suppose I should have been more specific in my description:</span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>By baseline I mean the proposed design. So the program outputs 2 sim files – the base(proposed, CHW) case and the iterated (DX) case</span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>We want to use eQuest to validate the system choice on this particular project. This is work that was started before I joined, but I have been selected to try and use eQuest to compare the performance of a chilled water system and a DX system. I’m not the most experienced energy modeler, but it seems like a task that would be a good application for eQuest. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>My approach was to simulate the energy consumption of a building that is similar to the actual design in orientation, shape, and square footage. I initially built the model in the SD wizard, using most of the default values (building envelope, activity usage, etc.), autosize the equipment, and use the EEM to compare the two systems. The idea was that when the building construction and geometry are equal, we can look at the relative energy consumption of the two systems. This initial simulation reported that the DX system would be more efficient, which is not what I had expected based on the design that had been selected.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>So I figured that maybe my model was too generic, too simple. I created zones based on the plans, and made the geometry more representative of the actual building. These changes produced reports that suggest the chilled water system is more efficient than the DX. I realized that the EEM was incorrectly modeling the change – it was treating the chilled water system as having all 8 air handlers, but was modeling the DX system as one AHU. So I created a duplicate model that has a DX system (autosized and using equest defaults). </span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>The comparison of these two models suggests the DX system is slightly more efficient. Unfortunately, my lack of experience makes me doubt the validity of this comparison – especially considering that the engineers selected a chilled water system for this project. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:.5in'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>So I suppose my questions are: Does my approach seem valid? Is this an appropriate use of the software?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>After taking some time to write this note, and with a little rest, I wonder if comparing the proposed design to an ASHRAE 90.1 baseline would have been a better approach.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Regards,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'>Matt Clough</span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p><div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center></span></font></div><p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Nick Caton [mailto:<a href="mailto:ncaton@smithboucher.com">ncaton@smithboucher.com</a>] <br><b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, April 23, 2012 3:40 PM<br><b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Matt Clough; <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: EEM vs. new model</span></font><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>By context, I gather by ‘baseline’ you mean something other than your proposed design, such as an 90.1 Appendix G baseline or similar.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>If that’s the case, my general advice is that you should <u>much</u> more heavily weight the comparative results using your “actual/proposed” model. A baseline per above inherently diverges from the actual building materials, lighting power densities, solar load shading, and so forth. It’s not the same building.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Best to choose systems that most efficiently handle your actual project. Don’t get too hung up what works best for an imaginary building ;).</span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>~Nick</span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><img border=0 width=119 height=37 id="Picture_x005f_x005f_x005f_x0020_1" src="cid:image001.jpg@01CD22C0.84DBE080" alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB"></span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color="#2d4d5e" face="Stylus BT"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E;font-weight:bold'> </span></font></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=3 color="#2d4d5e" face="Stylus BT"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E;font-weight:bold'>NICK CATON, P.E.</span></font></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color="#cc9900" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#CC9900'>SENIOR ENGINEER</span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color="#cc9900" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#CC9900'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#2d4d5e" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'>Smith & Boucher Engineers</span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#2d4d5e" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'>25501 west valley parkway, suite 200</span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#2d4d5e" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'>olathe, ks 66061</span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#2d4d5e" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'>direct 913.344.0036</span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#2d4d5e" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'>fax 913.345.0617</span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><a href="www.smithboucher.com" title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com"><font size=2><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>www.smithboucher.com</span></font></a></span></font><u><font size=2 color=blue face=Calibri><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue'> </span></font></u><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Matt Clough<br><b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, April 23, 2012 1:59 PM<br><b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [Equest-users] EEM vs. new model</span></font><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Salutations eQuesters,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I’m doing a simple comparison between a chilled water and DX system. It would seem that this is a great opportunity to use the EEM, and the simulation predicted that the CHW configuration would be more energy efficient than the DX system. To be conservative, I also made a copy of the baseline model and changed the system from chilled water to DX. Using this method, the simulation predicts that the DX system would be more efficient (although not by much). Which result is most accurate? The building is a car dealership with a large showroom and an air-conditioned parts storage area.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>The geometry and building envelope are not exact, but I made this decision because we are doing this for comparison purposes, so the geometry and construction will be the same. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I have let eQuest autosize both systems.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Sincerely, </span></font><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Matt Clough</span></font><o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>