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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Alex you are correct, eQuest does not know the surface temperatures required to calculate the Mean Radiant Temperature. eQuest /DOE2 uses the Cooling Load Temperature Difference (CLTD) method to arrive at heat loads in a space. This approach makes approximations of the radiant component of heat transfer and does not directly calculate radiant gains or losses. Because of this, any DOE2 based software at best can predict air temperature and moisture needed for a PMV calc.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>EnergyPlus or IES are the only engines that can produce hourly surface temp information and therefore, mean radiant temperature averages.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>If you are interested in providing comfort feedback of envelope changes and not HVAC changes, learning EnergyPlus using OpenStudio from NREL is well worth the time and effort. Their workflow takes some practice to adopt but once you get the hang of things, creating buildings is very easy. Their youtube channel is best for explaining this, search for OpenStudio and NREL. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray'>Neil Bulger</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:gray'><br></span><span style='font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray'>Project Engineer<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#99CC00'>________________________________</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#999999'>I N T E G R A L<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#999999'> </span></b><b><span style='font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray'> </span></b><b><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray'>GROUP</span></b><span style='font-size:8.0pt;color:gray'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#999999'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:6.0pt'><span style='font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray'>427 13th Street, Oakland CA 94612</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:gray'><br></span><span style='font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray'>510 663 2070 x 235<br></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><a href="mailto:nbulger@integralgroup.com"><span style='font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>nbulger@integralgroup.com</span></a></span><span style='font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray'><br></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><a href="http://www.integralgroup.com/"><span style='font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>www.integralgroup.com</span></a></span><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#99CC00'>DEEP GREEN Engineering.<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:6.0pt'><b><span style='font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#99CC00'>________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></b></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Alex Krickx<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 12, 2012 9:13 AM<br><b>To:</b> Kathryn Kerns<br><b>Cc:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Can you use eQuest for PMV calculations?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I’ll second the suggestion to purchase the Thermal Comfort tool. It is easy to use. I believe that a newer version was recently released – we’re still using the 1994 version.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>However, I’m not sure that it solves Jason’s problem – it still requires a user-entered Mean Radiant Temperature which I don’t believe eQUEST gives as an output.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>When we use the tool (specifically for perimeter comfort analysis understanding the impact of different glazing options on comfort) we make some assumptions on wall/floor/ceiling temps, some calculations on glass-temperatures, and some further assumptions on the ratio of glass-to-other surfaces from the occupant’s perspective. Based on that we can calculate the PMV for that single point time with those conditions.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I’ve used software in the past that was able to calculate PMV for every hour of the year (so every hour it would combine air temp, a calculated MRT based on surface temps, humidity, etc) and then give an output for how comfortable the space was throughout the year (with hourly outputs of PMV for different spaces). I don’t believe that eQUEST gives the necessary information (surface temps) to do this type of analysis.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I included Jeremiah’s response below which suggests that Energy Plus can do these calculations. This was my impression, however I have never used E+ to do them.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Kind regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Alex<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#262F13'>Alex Krickx, LEED AP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:gray'>Building Energy Specialist<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Serious Energy, Inc.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>1250 Elko Dr, Sunnyvale, CA 94089<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>(t) 408.541.8124<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>akrickx@seriousenergy.com<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><i><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments may be confidential, proprietary and/or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient then you have received it in error and any review, distribution or copying of this message and any attachments is prohibited and you are to notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete immediately this message and any attachments.</span></i><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#336666'>Energy Plus does PMV and inside surface temperatures as well...</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#336666'><br clear=all></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><i><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#999999'>Jeremiah D. Crossett</span></i><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><i><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#999999'>CleanTech Analytics</span></i><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><i><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#999999'>503-688-8951</span></i><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><a href="http://www.cleantechanalytics.com" target="_blank"><i><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#999999'>www.cleantechanalytics.com</span></i></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Kathryn Kerns [mailto:kathryn.kerns@bceengineers.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 12, 2012 8:58 AM<br><b>To:</b> Alex Krickx<br><b>Cc:</b> equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [Equest-users] Can you use eQuest for PMV calculations?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div id=idOWAReplyText73404><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Alex, ASHRAE sells a Thermal Comfort program which will do these calculations for you based on temperature, humidity, air speed, etc. It doesn't cost much and is easy to use. Check the ASHRAE website for things to purchase.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> on behalf of Alex Krickx<br><b>Sent:</b> Wed 4/11/2012 3:42 PM<br><b>To:</b> Jason Quinn; <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] Can you use eQuest for PMV calculations?</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Hi Jason,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I’m under the impression that eQUEST can’t output surface temperatures which are needed to calculate PMV values.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I think an EnergyPlus based program might be a better place to look. I would ask on the Bldg-Sim list for recommendations as it has a broader user-base (this list is eQUEST specific).</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Good luck,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Alex</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#262F13'>Alex Krickx, LEED AP</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:gray'>Building Energy Specialist</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Serious Energy, Inc.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>1250 Elko Dr, Sunnyvale, CA 94089</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>(t) 408.541.8124</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><a href="mailto:akrickx@seriousenergy.com">akrickx@seriousenergy.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><i><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments may be confidential, proprietary and/or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient then you have received it in error and any review, distribution or copying of this message and any attachments is prohibited and you are to notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete immediately this message and any attachments.</span></i><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jason Quinn<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 11, 2012 3:36 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] Can you use eQuest for PMV calculations?</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p>Is it possible to use an eQuest model to do thermal comfort PMV (Predicted Mean Vote) calculations per ASHRAE 55/RP884?<o:p></o:p></p><p>If not are there any recommendations?<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></body></html>