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Varkie,<br>
<br>
That's interesting, so at least there are three people who've used
the the EMPA surface temperature calculation in DOE-2.1E (EMPA, you,
and me) :-)<br>
<br>
In case anyone's interested, I'm attaching some more information on
this feature in 2.1E:<br>
(1) original documentation by Markus Koschenz of EMPA from the 2.1
Update, Version 107<br>
(2) my description of the comfort calculator that I implemented in
2003 as a User Function to 2.1E.<br>
<br>
Call me old style, but I really like the User Function in DOE-2.1E,
because it allowed me to add features and tweaks to the program to
get the information that I need, instead of just waiting for<br>
the next release of whatever program you're using.<br>
<br>
Joe<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="90">Joe Huang
White Box Technologies, Inc.
346 Rheem Blvd., Suite 108D
Moraga CA 94556
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com">yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.whiteboxtechnologies.com">www.whiteboxtechnologies.com</a>
(o) (925)388-0265
(c) (510)928-2683
"building energy simulations at your fingertips"
</pre>
<br>
On 4/12/2012 7:06 AM, Varkie C Thomas wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:faed8986a6df.4f869b11@iit.edu" type="cite">
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><font
face="Calibri"><b style=""><span style="font-size: 14pt;">DOE-2
Supplement Version 21E</span></b><span style="font-size:
12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;"><font face="Calibri">December 1993<o:p></o:p></font></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;"><font face="Calibri">Appendix A<o:p></o:p></font></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;"><font face="Calibri">Hourly Report
Variables<o:p></o:p></font></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;"><font face="Calibri">Page<span
style=""> </span>A10<o:p></o:p></font></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p><font face="Calibri"> </font></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;"><font face="Calibri">LOADS<o:p></o:p></font></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;"><font face="Calibri">Variable-Type =
u-name of EXTERIOR-WALL<o:p></o:p></font></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;"><font face="Calibri">Variable List
Number<span style=""> </span>5<span style=""> </span>Q<span
style=""> </span>Heat transfer from wall to the
zone un-weighted (Btu/hr)<o:p></o:p></font></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;"><font face="Calibri">Variable List
Number<span style=""> </span>6<span style=""> </span>T<span
style=""> </span>Outside surface temperature
(Rankine)<o:p></o:p></font></span></p>
<br>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;"><font face="Calibri">The outside
surface temp was used to calculate the inside surface temp
in this example<o:p></o:p></font></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://bepan.info/contents"><font color="#0000ff"
face="Calibri">http://bepan.info/contents</font></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://bepan.info/proj-doe21e/p22_kuwait-shell-mrt"><font
color="#0000ff" face="Calibri">http://bepan.info/proj-doe21e/p22_kuwait-shell-mrt</font></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;"><font face="Calibri"></font></span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://bepan.info/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/Kuwait-Envelope-Temps-MRT-Systems-Study.14972445.pdf"
type="4" _mce_href=""><font color="#0000ff"><font
face="Calibri">Proj-22 -
Kuwait-Envelope-Temps-MRT-Systems-Study<span
style="overflow: hidden;" id="mce_0_end"
data-mce-type="bookmark"></span></font></font></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="MsoNoSpacing"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p><font face="Calibri"> </font></o:p></span></p>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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This is a topic that I have explored. Although DOE-2 (the core
engine for eQUEST) does not explicitly solve for the inside
surface temperatures, researchers at EMPA in Switzerland back in
the late 90's added a routine to DOE-2.1E to back-calculate the
inside surface temperatures (think of it as doing a heat balance
calculation in reverse). This featured is documented in DOE-2.1E
update package 2 (version 107), but I only have a hard copy of the
report. In 2003, I used this feature to do exactly what Jason is
asking, i.e., calculate<br>
the PMV for naturally ventilated buildings in Egypt. Recently,
I've also used the same feature to estimate the amount of radiant
heat<br>
transfer from attics to the conditioned space, something that is
ignored in the weighting factor model in DOE-2. <br>
<br>
The bad news, though, is that this feature has not been carried
over from DOE-2.1E to DOE-2.2, although I've had some discussions<br>
with members of the development team about resurrecting it. <br>
<br>
Joe<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="90">Joe Huang
White Box Technologies, Inc.
346 Rheem Blvd., Suite 108D
Moraga CA 94556
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com">yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.whiteboxtechnologies.com">www.whiteboxtechnologies.com</a>
(o) (925)388-0265
(c) (510)928-2683
"building energy simulations at your fingertips"
</pre>
<br>
On 4/11/2012 3:42 PM, Alex Krickx wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:B8B836A09111F041A16C8A3690FB3563FEEDACAA95@EXVMBX015-6.exch015.msoutlookonline.net"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Context-Type" content="text/html;
charset=us-ascii">
<div>
<p><span>Hi Jason, </span></p>
<p><span> </span></p>
<p><span>I’m under the impression that eQUEST can’t output
surface temperatures which are needed to calculate PMV
values. </span></p>
<p><span> </span></p>
<p><span>I think an EnergyPlus based program might be a better
place to look. I would ask on the Bldg-Sim list for
recommendations as it has a broader user-base (this list
is eQUEST specific). </span></p>
<p><span> </span></p>
<p><span>Good luck, </span></p>
<p><span>Alex </span></p>
<p><span> </span></p>
<p><span>Alex Krickx, LEED AP </span></p>
<p><span>Building Energy Specialist </span></p>
<p><span>Serious Energy, Inc. </span></p>
<p><span>1250 Elko Dr, Sunnyvale, CA 94089 </span></p>
<p><span>(t) 408.541.8124 </span></p>
<p><span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:akrickx@seriousenergy.com">akrickx@seriousenergy.com</a>
</span></p>
<p><span> </span></p>
<p><i><span>The information contained in this e-mail and any
attachments may be confidential, proprietary and/or
privileged. If you are not the intended recipient then
you have received it in error and any review,
distribution or copying of this message and any
attachments is prohibited and you are to notify the
sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete
immediately this message and any attachments.</span></i><span>
</span></p>
<p><span> </span></p>
<p><span> </span></p>
<div>
<p><b><span>From:</span></b><span> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org">mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jason Quinn<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 11, 2012 3:36 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] Can you use eQuest for
PMV calculations? </span></p>
</div>
<p> </p>
<p>Is it possible to use an eQuest model to do thermal comfort
PMV (Predicted Mean Vote) calculations per ASHRAE 55/RP884?
</p>
<p>If not are there any recommendations? </p>
</div>
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