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<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV>This is also very good advice, I appreciate it!</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I believe I’m going to follow the plenum path if I can justify it with the
rules that Bill pointed out. However, I’m also going to go ahead and model
the interstitials as you suggest and evaluate the duct heat loss / heat gain
carefully so that I can discuss it in detail in my documentation.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>It will be interesting to see how the space behaves, and to determine the
magnitude of its effect.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">David R.
Weigel, PE<BR>Member / President<BR>The Watt Doctors, LLC<BR>1189 Golden Circle
SW<BR>Lilburn, GA 30047-1913<BR>678-353-6394 office<BR>901-619-1716
cell<BR></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt tahoma">
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=ncaton@smithboucher.com
href="mailto:ncaton@smithboucher.com">Nick Caton</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, March 29, 2012 10:42 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=dave.weigel@thewattdoctors.com
href="mailto:dave.weigel@thewattdoctors.com">Dave Weigel</A> ; <A
title=equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org
href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</A>
</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Equest-users] Modeling interstitial
spaces</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none">
<DIV class=WordSection1>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Hi
Dave,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Ultimately
your model will require extra explanation if you don’t come into the same
ballpark as the area numbers derived from others’ credit templates - you can
make the areas add up correctly in a number of ways, but you may have to decide
how you’re handling your interstitial floors
first/separately.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">If
you feel you can make the case that heat transfer to/from these floors and
to/from the uninsulated return air paths is not consequential, then your
simplest approach probably is to simply not define those floors during wizards
and manually specify interstitial lighting and other internal loads/scheduling
directly to your electric meter. I would plan on presenting a screenshot
of those meter inputs as part of your documentation with a brief explanation of
what they represent and how they were determined.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">If
on the other hand you are concerned about some of those heat transfers being
significant enough to bother modeling (I probably would be with uninsulated
ducts), model the floors as unconditioned space types (without plenums if
appropriate), then once in detailed mode: <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1"
class=MsoListParagraph><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><SPAN
style="mso-list: ignore">1.<SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Ensure
the floors/ceilings separating your conditioned floors are thermally tied to the
interstitial floors with internal partitions of an appropriate construction type
– you’ll probably need to define something unique for these floor
partitions.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1"
class=MsoListParagraph><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><SPAN
style="mso-list: ignore">2.<SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Check/define
exterior surfaces/constructions and internals for these zones
(lighting/equipment/people/infiltration) – you don’t want to define at meter if
you intend to model heat transfers.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1"
class=MsoListParagraph><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><SPAN
style="mso-list: ignore">3.<SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Go
to airside systems tab: For the systems pulling air through these spaces as part
of the return air path, <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; mso-list: l0 level2 lfo1"
class=MsoListParagraph><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><SPAN
style="mso-list: ignore">a.<SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">make
sure you’ve chosen ‘ducted’ return, <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; mso-list: l0 level2 lfo1"
class=MsoListParagraph><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><SPAN
style="mso-list: ignore">b.<SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">enter
something for duct air loss ratio (can be zero)<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; mso-list: l0 level2 lfo1"
class=MsoListParagraph><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><SPAN
style="mso-list: ignore">c.<SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">this
allows you to define a zone from which the return air ducts will transfer heat
to/from – choose the appropriate interstitial zone, and fill in the remaining
heat transfer inputs.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">I
can’t tell you from experience whether a LEED reviewer will make you model those
floors as unconditioned spaces after the fact if you choose not to, but based on
my general sense of the LEED review process the degree of rigor seems to scale
up when pursuing larger numbers of points. I have never personally seen
duct losses come up in review commentary.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">It
might be worth investigating whether there is any precedent or requirement to
NOT model <U>duct</U> return leakage/losses in the way 90.1 says piping losses
are explicitly NOT to be modeled. It might simplify your situation
considering the potential challenges of applying these heat transfers to your
baseline model in a fair fashion. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">~Nick<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><IMG
id=Picture_x0020_1 alt=cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB
src="cid:3CC9BE1458C74525BD4CC5B477A1F500@DaveHPDesktop" width=119
height=37></SPAN><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Stylus BT','sans-serif'; COLOR: #2d4d5e; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></B></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Stylus BT','sans-serif'; COLOR: #2d4d5e; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></B> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Stylus BT','sans-serif'; COLOR: #2d4d5e">NICK CATON,
P.E.</SPAN></B><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Stylus BT','sans-serif'; COLOR: #2d4d5e"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></B></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #cc9900; FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt">SENIOR
ENGINEER<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #cc9900; FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #2d4d5e; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Smith
& Boucher Engineers</SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #cc9900; FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #2d4d5e; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">25501
west valley parkway, suite 200<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #2d4d5e; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">olathe,
ks 66061<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #2d4d5e; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">direct
913.344.0036<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #2d4d5e; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">fax
913.345.0617<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><A
title=blocked::www.smithboucher.com href="wlmailhtml:www.smithboucher.com"><SPAN
style="COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">www.smithboucher.com</SPAN></A></SPAN><U><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
</SPAN></U><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Dave
Weigel<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, March 29, 2012 8:12 AM<BR><B>To:</B>
equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Equest-users] Modeling
interstitial spaces<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p></o:p> </P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: black">Hello
group,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: black">I’m unsure how to deal
with interstitial spaces between floors (see sketch attached) that are only
indirectly heated and cooled. This is for a LEED project, so I have to document
how I account for the energy in eQuest. The spaces are not occupied, and
should not count toward building area gross square feet. Simply treating the
spaces as unconditioned on one side of a horizontal partition won’t be very
accurate. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: black">I have considered
modeling the interstitial spaces separately, exporting the hourly loads and
temperature profiles, and creating some sort of internal load to represent them
– but that sounds like a long way around to get where I’m
going.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: black">Does anyone have a
hint for me?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: black">Thanks!<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: black">David R. Weigel,
PE<BR>Member / President<BR>The Watt Doctors, LLC<BR>1189 Golden Circle
SW<BR>Lilburn, GA 30047-1913<BR>678-353-6394 office<BR>901-619-1716
cell<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>