As long as the cooling thermostat setpoints are identical in both models, USGBC should approve of it. We have done this on numerous projects for small storage spaces and stairwells.<div><br></div><div>Rob<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">
On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 6:14 PM, James Hess <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:JHess@tmecorp.com">JHess@tmecorp.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I believe you have to include the cooling system in the model (per ASHRAE), but with the cooling thermostat set-point set high (i.e. up to 90 degrees), per
USGBC, which effectively makes this a moot point. Is the cooling system in the model? Yes, we met the modeling requirement. Does it have any impact on the savings? The answer would be no.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">That is how I would handle this situation.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I have seen this written down somewhere, maybe a USGBC interpretation, just cannot remember where I saw this.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#339966"><u></u> <u></u></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#339966">JAH<u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#339966"><u></u> <u></u></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#339966">James A. Hess, PE, CEM, BEMP</span></i></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><br>
Energy Engineer<br>
TME, Inc.<br>
Little Rock, AR<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Mobile: <a href="tel:%28501%29%20351-4667" value="+15013514667" target="_blank">(501) 351-4667</a></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jeff Ross-Bain<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, March 09, 2012 1:59 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] Modeling a non-existing cooling system<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Hi All,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">From my understanding of ASHRAE 90.1 Appendix G Table G3.1 (10) and the User’s Manual, if a space has no cooling system, and it is a conditioned space (i.e.
NOT semiheated), then that space must have a cooling system modeled and it would be identical for the proposed and baseline cases. I completely understand the logic of this requirement – in most cases.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">However, I am working on a fire station where the apparatus bay (the fire trucks) are in a 4,000+ sq ft space that is heated only, but is a conditioned space
and not a semiheated space. This space is almost half of the building area, will not be cooled, has large overhead doors that are mostly open, and is a place where diesel engines run.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Does anyone out there know of any exception, or interpretation, to this modeling rule for specific cases such as a fire station where a space can be modeled
as heated only for the baseline and proposed cases? The model will be submitted for LEED review. I can certainly model a cooling system but it does not seem to make sense in this case.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Thanks for your input and I really appreciate this forum.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Cheers!<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#006e78">Jeff Ross-Bain, PE,
</span></b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#006e78">LEED AP BD+C</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#535053"><br>
Principal<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#535053"><a href="tel:404-220-8940" value="+14042208940" target="_blank">404-220-8940</a> Office<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#006e78"><a href="http://www.rbgb.com/" target="_blank">www.rbgb.com</a></span></b><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#535053"><br>
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</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#006e78">Build Green. Save Time<b><u></u><u></u></b></span></p>
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